hmm i thought the 8500 naming fiasco's had taught ATi a lesson. this just makes the market more difficult to see through for the non-enthusiast.

I see this as ATi sort of admitting that the whole 8500/9100/9200 line is done and over. The 9600 isn't really powerfully enough to compete for mid-range card against the 5600 right now, but if they put a 9800se in the line up to compete with the 5600 it should whomp it and then just kick the 9600 to the low-end of the spectrum and offer a value card that is a real value. Remember, the reason the 9600 isn't as good as the 9500 is also the reason it is so cheap to produce....think ATi might try a sweep of the value market? ;) I think this is good news, mebbe REAL good news. 8)

i didnt mean it the way i think you got it. yea theres a need for the card. it's just the naming i object against. people who doesnt have understanding of the gfx market hears lots of stuff about the great 9800 and hen goes to buy one... they might pick up this card instead... it isnt justice ;P

between 200 euro and 300 euro... buy a damn 9700 non pro and overclock it to a pro, im betting it will beat this easily and be much cheaper. a 9700 np is about 300cdn (under 200 euro) and will probably become even cheaper after this is released

You need realize that ATI wants fill hole in theirs products, right now there are R9700pro, but how long? in fact 9700p is not anymore manufactured ... so "this" lightened 9800 will be for these who don't want 9600/9600pro or 9800/9800pro or 9900pro how simple to understood... btw. load of people whine about existence of R9600pro and that's slower than 9500pro ... now u getting relative cheap card faster than 9600pro and it's not discontinued product (9500/9700)