Who is the real sniper?
this is bullshi*, although it affects me in no way this type of censorship should be abolished. This is a good example where the consumer would need to get a 'warez' copy in order to be fully satisfied.
This topic was started by kathaksung,
I think the sniper case was done by government insider. It's a case similar to anthrax attack. I believe it was done by law enforcement agency. The anthrax attack was done to push congress for the passing through of "Patriot Act". The sniper case was done to push congress for passing resolution of authorization president with war power on Iraq.
The announcement of arrest of Mohammad and Malvo puzzled me. It seems evidence is strong, (especially Malvo admitted he was the shooter). I once thought I was wrong. But question emerged gradually. My suspicion on this case are:
(1) The sniper had to move away the back cushion of the seat when he intended to shoot. The only place he could put it on was the foot space for rear seat passenger. It's a big lump to handle in small compartment of Chevrolet Caprice. It would take sometime to move and settle it. And too, to put it back after shooting. The abnormal action would easy to be noticed. The Caprice is with glass windows.
(2) The sniper couldn't lay flat to shoot. He had to hold the rifle, so there was a height of his shoulder. His head must be upright to aim, so there was the height of his head over the shoulder. Was the luggage compartment that high for him? The rifle is long. If the distance from shoot hole to the back of front seat is 6 feet, a foot to two (from the aim point to gun end), must be deducted from 6 feet length. Then. there is only 4 feet and something left. There is hardly enough space for a sniper lay down to shoot.
(3) The hole is small ( News said it was blocked by a glove). Then the view of sniper is limited.
(4) The shooting were one shoot a victim. Even a sharp shooter need a nice situation to result it. It's hard to believe he could do this in a car like this. I still believe a cargo van or a box van was more likely used in the case as other witness saw.
In early November, a news inspired me. I posted a message in several sites as early as in 11/2 to doubt on the case.
"(1) Is Muhammad real sniper?
Is he real sniper? Many people said he intended to be caught by deliberately left many clues. Generally, a serial killer used to admit it when police knocking at his door. But though media were full of topic of "death penalty", it seems a propaganda to plant an idea to the public that Muhammad is the real sniper. Not much people are aware of that....
Muhammad Interrogation In Dispute
U.S. Attorneys Cut Off Talks, Local Prosecutor Alleges
By Susan Schmidt and Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 31, 2002; Page A01
Quote, "In the hours after his capture, sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad ranted at investigators, denying ownership of the car that he was arrested in and the Bushmaster rifle found inside it, Justice Department officials said yesterday.
FBI agents and Montgomery County detectives questioned Muhammad over a five-hour period at a secret location Thursday, trying to get him to say something that would help prosecutors build their case against him and John Lee Malvo. But Muhammad did not answer any questions about the shootings, officials said."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2002Oct30.html
(2) 17 years old now becomes expert sniper? (posted after Nov. 10)
If you believe at the right beginning in what media said Muhammad is an expert sniper and so and so. Now it goes to the other end. It seems they have to put the suspicion on Malvo, a 17 years old illegal immigrant from Jamaica now became the "expert sniper" who did one shoot a death.
Quote, "Officials Link Most Sniper Killings to Teenager
November 10, 2002
By JAYSON BLAIR
WASHINGTON, Nov. 9 - Senior law enforcement officials said
today that evidence suggested Lee Malvo, the 17-year-old
charged in the Washington-area sniper shootings, was the
gunman in most of the attacks that left 10 dead.
The officials said investigators did not believe that Mr.
Muhammad could fit in the trunk of the Caprice, where a
hole had been hollowed out in the back and a seat modified
so a gunman could fire from the back of the car. "The trunk
is very small and Malvo is much smaller than Muhammad," one
official said."
I posted my opinion on 11/2, this news on 11/10 proves it. Remember so far the evidence government given can be planted. The two were not directly found or arrested on the shooting site.
Then why the two were chosen to be the "snipers"?
The announcement of arrest of Mohammad and Malvo puzzled me. It seems evidence is strong, (especially Malvo admitted he was the shooter). I once thought I was wrong. But question emerged gradually. My suspicion on this case are:
(1) The sniper had to move away the back cushion of the seat when he intended to shoot. The only place he could put it on was the foot space for rear seat passenger. It's a big lump to handle in small compartment of Chevrolet Caprice. It would take sometime to move and settle it. And too, to put it back after shooting. The abnormal action would easy to be noticed. The Caprice is with glass windows.
(2) The sniper couldn't lay flat to shoot. He had to hold the rifle, so there was a height of his shoulder. His head must be upright to aim, so there was the height of his head over the shoulder. Was the luggage compartment that high for him? The rifle is long. If the distance from shoot hole to the back of front seat is 6 feet, a foot to two (from the aim point to gun end), must be deducted from 6 feet length. Then. there is only 4 feet and something left. There is hardly enough space for a sniper lay down to shoot.
(3) The hole is small ( News said it was blocked by a glove). Then the view of sniper is limited.
(4) The shooting were one shoot a victim. Even a sharp shooter need a nice situation to result it. It's hard to believe he could do this in a car like this. I still believe a cargo van or a box van was more likely used in the case as other witness saw.
In early November, a news inspired me. I posted a message in several sites as early as in 11/2 to doubt on the case.
"(1) Is Muhammad real sniper?
Is he real sniper? Many people said he intended to be caught by deliberately left many clues. Generally, a serial killer used to admit it when police knocking at his door. But though media were full of topic of "death penalty", it seems a propaganda to plant an idea to the public that Muhammad is the real sniper. Not much people are aware of that....
Muhammad Interrogation In Dispute
U.S. Attorneys Cut Off Talks, Local Prosecutor Alleges
By Susan Schmidt and Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 31, 2002; Page A01
Quote, "In the hours after his capture, sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad ranted at investigators, denying ownership of the car that he was arrested in and the Bushmaster rifle found inside it, Justice Department officials said yesterday.
FBI agents and Montgomery County detectives questioned Muhammad over a five-hour period at a secret location Thursday, trying to get him to say something that would help prosecutors build their case against him and John Lee Malvo. But Muhammad did not answer any questions about the shootings, officials said."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2002Oct30.html
(2) 17 years old now becomes expert sniper? (posted after Nov. 10)
If you believe at the right beginning in what media said Muhammad is an expert sniper and so and so. Now it goes to the other end. It seems they have to put the suspicion on Malvo, a 17 years old illegal immigrant from Jamaica now became the "expert sniper" who did one shoot a death.
Quote, "Officials Link Most Sniper Killings to Teenager
November 10, 2002
By JAYSON BLAIR
WASHINGTON, Nov. 9 - Senior law enforcement officials said
today that evidence suggested Lee Malvo, the 17-year-old
charged in the Washington-area sniper shootings, was the
gunman in most of the attacks that left 10 dead.
The officials said investigators did not believe that Mr.
Muhammad could fit in the trunk of the Caprice, where a
hole had been hollowed out in the back and a seat modified
so a gunman could fire from the back of the car. "The trunk
is very small and Malvo is much smaller than Muhammad," one
official said."
I posted my opinion on 11/2, this news on 11/10 proves it. Remember so far the evidence government given can be planted. The two were not directly found or arrested on the shooting site.
Then why the two were chosen to be the "snipers"?
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Responses to this topic
I think your crazy
lets try to not start wars on these forums please
That's all fine and dandy, but what purpose does telling us about it serve? Under American law a defendant is judged by his/her peers which have been selected and sit in isolated contemplation of evidence. Swaying popular opinion outside the courtroom (should) have no effect on the verdict. That said, should consiracy theories like these swing the opinion of the jury then we muct construct a new conspiracy theory of how people create conspiracy theories to get people off the hook. See the never ending cycle?
If you want to save Malvo and Muhammad you should be writing to their legal counsel, not to the public at large. These things have a tendency to grow faster than the evidence to support them, so if you truly seek truth you must be careful with what facts or theories you share in a public space.
If you want to save Malvo and Muhammad you should be writing to their legal counsel, not to the public at large. These things have a tendency to grow faster than the evidence to support them, so if you truly seek truth you must be careful with what facts or theories you share in a public space.
(4) Rich homeless
When someone complained in internet that INS had released Malvo after he was arrested as an illegal immigrant, I had posted such a message: "Don't blame INS all the way. Malvo might have been recruited as an informant. Law enforcement agent used to use such kind of people as snitch. John doer2 in OKC bombing is a similar one, or now called Padilla."
Quote, "In particular, there has been ample information to indicate that Williams had significant connections to larger illegal resources or organizations.
Multiple Identities: .....
Extensive Travel: The Rev. Alan Archer, who runs the Lighthouse Mission homeless shelter where
Williams and Malvo often stayed, reported that Williams would often claim extreme poverty, and yet at times procure large quantities of cash and fly off to such destinations as the Caribbean, Florida on business, and to Denver and Salt Lake City for skiing. Archer said that Williams frequently took phone calls from travel agents, so his jet-setting was a regular affair. This kind of activity is highly indicative of the fact that Williams was part of some sort of international ring. He stated to several friends that he moved to Bellingham to be near the Canadian border, so he could quickly get out of the US if needed.
Immigrant Smuggling:...."
http://www.centrexnews.com/columnists/skousen/2002/1101.html
(5) Muhammad's life in Jamaica seemed to be a fairly good one: praying, jogging, adopted a son- Malvo.
Quote, "Muhammad seemed a model father. He prayed at home, stopped by his kids' Greenville Primary School and took them jogging every afternoon.
> Malvo lived with the family for about three months, and each morning donned khaki pants and a blue plaid tie to attend the Antigua and Barbuda Seventh-Day Adventist School. Muhammad introduced him as his son.
On frequent trips to the United States, Muhammad loaded up with blank CDs, batteries, things that can be high-priced on the island, and sold them to friends. He also weaved grand stories, telling a friend he had worked for the CIA and FBI, and that he had to return to the States periodically to give military training workshops."
Do they more like informants for a powerful organization then the homeless as most paper saying? If you find all media reported conflict saying from government, (almost like a pre-trial) but rarely heard what suspects say or some other source? Anyone with common sense would know that which organization had the power to decide not to deport illegal immigrant and also were interested in penetration of smuggling society of illegal immigrants and the homeless society as well. I recognized that news report right away when I first read it. In my experience, G-lady (see #32, #47) often went to ski resort Tahoe around year 93. Because she is not a lady fond of sport, I at that time was impressed that agents liked to entertain their informants when they had meeting. Now it looked like it's one of their culture. To have their training course at ski resorts.
See G-lady's story (#32, 47) at:
http://hometown.aol.com/kathaksung/myhomepage/profile.html
If there is harassment (blank page, slow entering, server busy....) try
http://forums.delphiforums.com/police915/messages/?msg=25.1
When someone complained in internet that INS had released Malvo after he was arrested as an illegal immigrant, I had posted such a message: "Don't blame INS all the way. Malvo might have been recruited as an informant. Law enforcement agent used to use such kind of people as snitch. John doer2 in OKC bombing is a similar one, or now called Padilla."
Quote, "In particular, there has been ample information to indicate that Williams had significant connections to larger illegal resources or organizations.
Multiple Identities: .....
Extensive Travel: The Rev. Alan Archer, who runs the Lighthouse Mission homeless shelter where
Williams and Malvo often stayed, reported that Williams would often claim extreme poverty, and yet at times procure large quantities of cash and fly off to such destinations as the Caribbean, Florida on business, and to Denver and Salt Lake City for skiing. Archer said that Williams frequently took phone calls from travel agents, so his jet-setting was a regular affair. This kind of activity is highly indicative of the fact that Williams was part of some sort of international ring. He stated to several friends that he moved to Bellingham to be near the Canadian border, so he could quickly get out of the US if needed.
Immigrant Smuggling:...."
http://www.centrexnews.com/columnists/skousen/2002/1101.html
(5) Muhammad's life in Jamaica seemed to be a fairly good one: praying, jogging, adopted a son- Malvo.
Quote, "Muhammad seemed a model father. He prayed at home, stopped by his kids' Greenville Primary School and took them jogging every afternoon.
> Malvo lived with the family for about three months, and each morning donned khaki pants and a blue plaid tie to attend the Antigua and Barbuda Seventh-Day Adventist School. Muhammad introduced him as his son.
On frequent trips to the United States, Muhammad loaded up with blank CDs, batteries, things that can be high-priced on the island, and sold them to friends. He also weaved grand stories, telling a friend he had worked for the CIA and FBI, and that he had to return to the States periodically to give military training workshops."
Do they more like informants for a powerful organization then the homeless as most paper saying? If you find all media reported conflict saying from government, (almost like a pre-trial) but rarely heard what suspects say or some other source? Anyone with common sense would know that which organization had the power to decide not to deport illegal immigrant and also were interested in penetration of smuggling society of illegal immigrants and the homeless society as well. I recognized that news report right away when I first read it. In my experience, G-lady (see #32, #47) often went to ski resort Tahoe around year 93. Because she is not a lady fond of sport, I at that time was impressed that agents liked to entertain their informants when they had meeting. Now it looked like it's one of their culture. To have their training course at ski resorts.
See G-lady's story (#32, 47) at:
http://hometown.aol.com/kathaksung/myhomepage/profile.html
If there is harassment (blank page, slow entering, server busy....) try
http://forums.delphiforums.com/police915/messages/?msg=25.1
(8) Information Federal want you know and not know
When the two were arrested, media were full of information that Muhammad was a specialist Marksman, that the rifle was from a gun shop of his living state, that he was linked to other gun murders. And even his former wife and his son were in news said he deserved deaths if he committed such crime. It was almost a pre-trial.
What we know is in Muhammad's first interrogation, he ranted and denied any connection to sniper case. He was brought into Federal custody just at the time when he intended to speak something. After about one week, DOJ dramatically dropped the initial 20 counts of Federal charges against him. Police said the trunk of Caprice is to small to fit him. Now all evidences turn to point to Malvo, and he admitted he did some shootings.
I think Muhammad and Malvo, as informants, were assigned to the sniper shooting sites. They thought they were doing routine job to solve sniper case, never dreamed of being framed as snipers themselves. The Caprice was their working car. After arrest, Muhammad was old enough to realize the seriousness of the situation, and was going to tell the truth. FBI, watching him all the time, stopped it at the right point. (I think in the train course in ski resort, a principle for informants is at any time, they shouldn't reveal their identity. Breaking the rule may face death penalty. Anyhow, Muhammad knew he would face death penalty too, if he wouldn't tell the truth. He chose not to be a scapegoat.) As the result, in that one week's custody, a compromise has reached, and there was a dramatical turnaround.
Malvo kept his mouth shut up during the first 5 hours' interrogation. A week later, he changed his manner after Federal handed them over to local police. In a 7 hours interrogation, he admitted he was the one who pulled the trigger. "Malvo was talkative, smiling, even bragging in response to indirect questions from investigators, sources said."(S.J.M.N.) A poster in internet said Malvo even sang during interrogation. What made him so happy for something would lead him to death penalty? It seems he was under influence of something. Or he was strongly trust the promise of FBI, believe they are the God? Anyway, the unusual behave of Malvo made his attorney, Arif, said "he needs a psychiatrist to evaluate Malvo because 'We're not certain what makes Mr. Malvo tick.'"
This interrogation was a questionable one. Muhammad and Malvo were transferred from Federal to local police in later afternoon. Peter Greenspan, who represented Muhammad, said, "All of this was so orchestrated so that they would get them to Virginia late in the afternoon when they couldn't get to court." Malvo's guardian, Petit, asked the police to stop the interrogation at 6p.m. A police commander agreed to pass on his request and then ordered him to leave. (S.J.M.N.)
When Federal want to stop Muhammad telling the truth, they used the reason of his right to have a lawyer. Once when they want people to know what they want them to know, they orchestrated another interrogation. Though without a lawyer, this time the Federal didn't try to protect Malvo's right.
(9) Question and Answer
Q1. Some people argue that people heard the shots
A. I re-read the news. They are right. People heard the shots. No silencer was used.
Q2. Some people said Muhammad and Malvo are the suspects because the shooting stopped after they were arrested.
A. I don't think it can prove anything. If it's a framed case, the real sniper of course would stop shooting, otherwise they would prove the two were innocent.
Perpetrator(s) stop to mail anthrax letter. That doesn't mean they have been arrested. It might only mean they stopped when mission was fulfiled. The former one was to push for the pass through of "Patriot Act" The later one was to push for the authorization of Iraq war power. FBI have trouble for incapacity of solving the anthrax case. So this time they prepared a scapegoat.
Q3. Some people said they have a Caprice, that it's trunk is spacious, and allowed man operating inside easily.
A. It seems contradictory to Police' conclusion. I have no experience with Caprice so I don't know which one is correct. There are two possibilities. Either there has been a compromise between the arrested two and Federal, so police lied to exclude Muhammad from shooting, or the trunk is really small. So far the authority's saying is it's too small to fit Muhammad.
And I still hold my opinion. The victims were in parking lot, or gas station, or at the entrance of the shop. Which were lighted area with a lot of traffic and customers. The Caprice couldn't be too near the sites because it thus would have been seen there was a big black hole in its back seat. And the operation to settle the big lump of back seat cushion would cause attention. It's not a van with closed area. It's a Sedan with glass window of four sides. In a situation that everybody kept alert, any sniper would have stayed far away from the crowd area. And even if the trunk is big, the deck must have been at the same level as other cars. If you lay at that level, see through a small hole about two feet away, your sight would be very limited and would be blocked by the body of other cars, the car parking along the roadside, on the parking lot, and the cars on the moving, even the bushes. The bullet path couldn't jump over the body of other cars. It's hard to imagine they could have done so many successful shootings by a Caprice without been discovered.
When the two were arrested, media were full of information that Muhammad was a specialist Marksman, that the rifle was from a gun shop of his living state, that he was linked to other gun murders. And even his former wife and his son were in news said he deserved deaths if he committed such crime. It was almost a pre-trial.
What we know is in Muhammad's first interrogation, he ranted and denied any connection to sniper case. He was brought into Federal custody just at the time when he intended to speak something. After about one week, DOJ dramatically dropped the initial 20 counts of Federal charges against him. Police said the trunk of Caprice is to small to fit him. Now all evidences turn to point to Malvo, and he admitted he did some shootings.
I think Muhammad and Malvo, as informants, were assigned to the sniper shooting sites. They thought they were doing routine job to solve sniper case, never dreamed of being framed as snipers themselves. The Caprice was their working car. After arrest, Muhammad was old enough to realize the seriousness of the situation, and was going to tell the truth. FBI, watching him all the time, stopped it at the right point. (I think in the train course in ski resort, a principle for informants is at any time, they shouldn't reveal their identity. Breaking the rule may face death penalty. Anyhow, Muhammad knew he would face death penalty too, if he wouldn't tell the truth. He chose not to be a scapegoat.) As the result, in that one week's custody, a compromise has reached, and there was a dramatical turnaround.
Malvo kept his mouth shut up during the first 5 hours' interrogation. A week later, he changed his manner after Federal handed them over to local police. In a 7 hours interrogation, he admitted he was the one who pulled the trigger. "Malvo was talkative, smiling, even bragging in response to indirect questions from investigators, sources said."(S.J.M.N.) A poster in internet said Malvo even sang during interrogation. What made him so happy for something would lead him to death penalty? It seems he was under influence of something. Or he was strongly trust the promise of FBI, believe they are the God? Anyway, the unusual behave of Malvo made his attorney, Arif, said "he needs a psychiatrist to evaluate Malvo because 'We're not certain what makes Mr. Malvo tick.'"
This interrogation was a questionable one. Muhammad and Malvo were transferred from Federal to local police in later afternoon. Peter Greenspan, who represented Muhammad, said, "All of this was so orchestrated so that they would get them to Virginia late in the afternoon when they couldn't get to court." Malvo's guardian, Petit, asked the police to stop the interrogation at 6p.m. A police commander agreed to pass on his request and then ordered him to leave. (S.J.M.N.)
When Federal want to stop Muhammad telling the truth, they used the reason of his right to have a lawyer. Once when they want people to know what they want them to know, they orchestrated another interrogation. Though without a lawyer, this time the Federal didn't try to protect Malvo's right.
(9) Question and Answer
Q1. Some people argue that people heard the shots
A. I re-read the news. They are right. People heard the shots. No silencer was used.
Q2. Some people said Muhammad and Malvo are the suspects because the shooting stopped after they were arrested.
A. I don't think it can prove anything. If it's a framed case, the real sniper of course would stop shooting, otherwise they would prove the two were innocent.
Perpetrator(s) stop to mail anthrax letter. That doesn't mean they have been arrested. It might only mean they stopped when mission was fulfiled. The former one was to push for the pass through of "Patriot Act" The later one was to push for the authorization of Iraq war power. FBI have trouble for incapacity of solving the anthrax case. So this time they prepared a scapegoat.
Q3. Some people said they have a Caprice, that it's trunk is spacious, and allowed man operating inside easily.
A. It seems contradictory to Police' conclusion. I have no experience with Caprice so I don't know which one is correct. There are two possibilities. Either there has been a compromise between the arrested two and Federal, so police lied to exclude Muhammad from shooting, or the trunk is really small. So far the authority's saying is it's too small to fit Muhammad.
And I still hold my opinion. The victims were in parking lot, or gas station, or at the entrance of the shop. Which were lighted area with a lot of traffic and customers. The Caprice couldn't be too near the sites because it thus would have been seen there was a big black hole in its back seat. And the operation to settle the big lump of back seat cushion would cause attention. It's not a van with closed area. It's a Sedan with glass window of four sides. In a situation that everybody kept alert, any sniper would have stayed far away from the crowd area. And even if the trunk is big, the deck must have been at the same level as other cars. If you lay at that level, see through a small hole about two feet away, your sight would be very limited and would be blocked by the body of other cars, the car parking along the roadside, on the parking lot, and the cars on the moving, even the bushes. The bullet path couldn't jump over the body of other cars. It's hard to imagine they could have done so many successful shootings by a Caprice without been discovered.
How About No.........
