War On Iraq - Personal Statement
Mr. Thomsen and myself, Mr. Mertin, the owners of this website, have observed the latest political and military developments since Wednesday with the most sincere concern.
This topic was started by Rancho*,
Mr. Thomsen and myself, Mr. Mertin, the owners of this website, have observed the latest political and military developments since Wednesday with the most sincere concern. In our opinion it is a tragedy that it has come so far and that all peaceful efforts were thrown aside as the U.S. have begun their attacks. No question that a dictatorship may not be the best political system to have in a country but is that really our's to decide on? And are there not other countries in the far east that should be observed with similar concern?
The United Nations Security Council has been rendered ineffective by the decision George W. Bush has made. We admit though that politics would have taken a much longer time frame. Our thoughts are with the victims of this war - Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the frontiers.
Worldwide acclaimed brazilian author Paul Coelho, author of “The Alchemistâ€, amongst other works, and member of the Brazilian Academy of Arts & Letters, wrote the following critical open letter to the President of the United States...
A Folha de Sao Paulo
First published: http://www.folha.uol.com.br/folha/
Author: Paul Coelho
March 8, 2003
Thank you, George Bush, the Great Leader.
First of all, may I thank you for showing all of us the danger which Saddam Hussein represents. Perhaps many of us might have forgotten that he used chemical weapons against his own people as well as against the people of Iran. Hussein is a blood-thirsty dictator, and certainly an embodiment of evil in the world today.
However, that is not the only reason why I am thanking you. In the early months of 2003, you helped show us, sir, many important things about the world, and it is for this that you have my gratitude. I was taught as child to always say "thank you" to someone who has done me a favor, and it is in that spirit that I write these words.
Thank you for showing us all that the people of Turkey and their Parliament are not for sale, not even for $26 billion dollars.
Thank you for showing us clearly the enormous abyss which exists between the decisions taken by leaders of nations and the true desires of their people. Thank you for helping us see with painful clarity that whether it is José Aznar of Spain or Tony Blair of the UK, that our so called elected leaders don´t have the slightest regard or respect for the fact that over 90% of their population are against war. Thank you for allowing us to witness the ease with whichTony Blair was able to blithely ignore the largest public protest held in England in the last 30 years.
Thank you, because your insistence on war forced Blair to go to Parliament with a plagiarized dossier which consisted of notes written ten years ago by an arab graduate student. As a result we were able to witness the unbelievable farce of Blair insisting that these notes represented “proof†gathered by the British secret service.
Thank you for for making Colin Powell descend to the ridiculous by showing the UN Security Council photographs, which a week later were publicly denounced by Hans Blix, the weapons inspector responsible for verifying the disarmament of Iraq
Thank you, because your position on war resulted in the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Dominique de Villepin, in his speech against war on Iraq, being honored by a standing ovation. This is an honor which, if I am correct, has only happened once before in the history of the U.N., and that was during a presentation by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you, because due to your strenuous push for war, for the first time the Arab nations of the Gulf, usually so divided, have found a reason to unite and have recently issued a joint resolution in Cairo condemning your proposed invasion. You have brought about a unity of opinion amongst the arab nations, that they had not achieved on their own.
Thank you, because as a result of your administration´s rhetoric blasting the United Nations as “irrelevantâ€, even the most undecided and reluctant nations have been inspired to take a position against your country´s attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your extraordinary foreign policy. Attempts to defend your ambitions have caused British Foreign Minister Jack Straw, to attempt to argue a case for a “moral warâ€, and with each attempt lose more international credibility.
Thank you for attempting to divide Europe, which after a century of war and upheaval has been fighting for unity. This was a warning clearly seen by all of us, and it will not be forgotten.
Thank you for finally managing to achieve what few have managed in the past century: to unite millions of people, across the continents and give them a common cause to fight for, even if that cause is the exact opposite from yours.
Thank you for letting us feel that even if our words are not being heard, they are at least being repeated. This will give us strength in the future.
Thank you, because without your esteemed help, we wouldn´t have known the extent to which we were capable of mobilizing. Perhaps this appears useless today...but it will serve us in the future.
Thank you.
So, now that the drums of war seem to beat with unstoppable ferocity, I want to add an insight, words uttered by an ancient European King to a would-be invader:
“May your morning be glorious and May the sun shine brightly on the armor of your soldiers, because in the afternoon I will defeat you.â€
Mr. Bush, thank you as well for visibly trying to stop a movement which has already begun. We will pay attention to the feelings of impotence, and the sensations it arouses within us. We will learn to deal with those emotions, and we will transform them.
In the meantime, may you enjoy your beautiful morning, and all the glory that it may bring you.
Thank you, because I know you will not listen to us, nor take us seriously. Know, however, that we have listened to you and heard you clearly, and we will not soon forget your words.
Thank you, George W. Bush, the great leader!
Many thanks to you.
Mr. Coelho certainly has his points. We would like to point out that this is our personal opinion about this war. Feel free to leave a comment if you wish.
Translation from portugese: Blogspot.com
The War at a glance @ BBC UK
The United Nations Security Council has been rendered ineffective by the decision George W. Bush has made. We admit though that politics would have taken a much longer time frame. Our thoughts are with the victims of this war - Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the frontiers.
Worldwide acclaimed brazilian author Paul Coelho, author of “The Alchemistâ€, amongst other works, and member of the Brazilian Academy of Arts & Letters, wrote the following critical open letter to the President of the United States...
A Folha de Sao Paulo
First published: http://www.folha.uol.com.br/folha/
Author: Paul Coelho
March 8, 2003
Thank you, George Bush, the Great Leader.
First of all, may I thank you for showing all of us the danger which Saddam Hussein represents. Perhaps many of us might have forgotten that he used chemical weapons against his own people as well as against the people of Iran. Hussein is a blood-thirsty dictator, and certainly an embodiment of evil in the world today.
However, that is not the only reason why I am thanking you. In the early months of 2003, you helped show us, sir, many important things about the world, and it is for this that you have my gratitude. I was taught as child to always say "thank you" to someone who has done me a favor, and it is in that spirit that I write these words.
Thank you for showing us all that the people of Turkey and their Parliament are not for sale, not even for $26 billion dollars.
Thank you for showing us clearly the enormous abyss which exists between the decisions taken by leaders of nations and the true desires of their people. Thank you for helping us see with painful clarity that whether it is José Aznar of Spain or Tony Blair of the UK, that our so called elected leaders don´t have the slightest regard or respect for the fact that over 90% of their population are against war. Thank you for allowing us to witness the ease with whichTony Blair was able to blithely ignore the largest public protest held in England in the last 30 years.
Thank you, because your insistence on war forced Blair to go to Parliament with a plagiarized dossier which consisted of notes written ten years ago by an arab graduate student. As a result we were able to witness the unbelievable farce of Blair insisting that these notes represented “proof†gathered by the British secret service.
Thank you for for making Colin Powell descend to the ridiculous by showing the UN Security Council photographs, which a week later were publicly denounced by Hans Blix, the weapons inspector responsible for verifying the disarmament of Iraq
Thank you, because your position on war resulted in the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Dominique de Villepin, in his speech against war on Iraq, being honored by a standing ovation. This is an honor which, if I am correct, has only happened once before in the history of the U.N., and that was during a presentation by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you, because due to your strenuous push for war, for the first time the Arab nations of the Gulf, usually so divided, have found a reason to unite and have recently issued a joint resolution in Cairo condemning your proposed invasion. You have brought about a unity of opinion amongst the arab nations, that they had not achieved on their own.
Thank you, because as a result of your administration´s rhetoric blasting the United Nations as “irrelevantâ€, even the most undecided and reluctant nations have been inspired to take a position against your country´s attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your extraordinary foreign policy. Attempts to defend your ambitions have caused British Foreign Minister Jack Straw, to attempt to argue a case for a “moral warâ€, and with each attempt lose more international credibility.
Thank you for attempting to divide Europe, which after a century of war and upheaval has been fighting for unity. This was a warning clearly seen by all of us, and it will not be forgotten.
Thank you for finally managing to achieve what few have managed in the past century: to unite millions of people, across the continents and give them a common cause to fight for, even if that cause is the exact opposite from yours.
Thank you for letting us feel that even if our words are not being heard, they are at least being repeated. This will give us strength in the future.
Thank you, because without your esteemed help, we wouldn´t have known the extent to which we were capable of mobilizing. Perhaps this appears useless today...but it will serve us in the future.
Thank you.
So, now that the drums of war seem to beat with unstoppable ferocity, I want to add an insight, words uttered by an ancient European King to a would-be invader:
“May your morning be glorious and May the sun shine brightly on the armor of your soldiers, because in the afternoon I will defeat you.â€
Mr. Bush, thank you as well for visibly trying to stop a movement which has already begun. We will pay attention to the feelings of impotence, and the sensations it arouses within us. We will learn to deal with those emotions, and we will transform them.
In the meantime, may you enjoy your beautiful morning, and all the glory that it may bring you.
Thank you, because I know you will not listen to us, nor take us seriously. Know, however, that we have listened to you and heard you clearly, and we will not soon forget your words.
Thank you, George W. Bush, the great leader!
Many thanks to you.
Mr. Coelho certainly has his points. We would like to point out that this is our personal opinion about this war. Feel free to leave a comment if you wish.
Translation from portugese: Blogspot.com
The War at a glance @ BBC UK
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Responses to this topic
What do you suggest? Diplomacy? Because that has worked for the past 12 years.
See the post 4 above this one.
So I suppose it was good that we neglected the Rwandans etc. when they were mass-murdered, because *gasp* we wouldn't want to play god.
You are an idiot, OMG. You say to stop playing with people's lives...do you know ANYTHING about what goes on in Iraq?! If you weren't such an ignorant twit, you'd know that INACTION is the death sentence, not ACTION. As I've mentioned, althought obviously you don't care/have the ability to read the other posts in their entirety but rather feel free to spout baseless opinions, if we didn't care about civilian lives we would nuke Baghdad/Iraq or fire-bomb the whole city/country. If we did so, we would have less casualties. But we don't, we spend tons of money on precise weapons so we can avoid casualties, whereas Saddam puts his military installations amidst civilians so that we cannot avoid casualties. And yet idiots like you are convinced that we have no right to call him evil. GET A CLUE.
He might be whatever...but I ask you again idiot...WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO JUDGE THAT? And don't append me to other posts other idiots wrote cause its stupid....like this forum is an encyclopedia or something...
Who the fuck do you think you are man to say what we are going to do about saddam....when it comes to OIL you are the first to go....when it comes to land you are the first to go...pretending to be saviors. Who do u think u are? John Maclane in Die Hard? or Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon?
Certainly you must think you are on a movie because you seem to think that you are The Producer, The Director and The Leading Actor on this planet.....
When you see so many people protesting against this war, I wonder whether you feel that something is wrong with what you are doing....
I know...you are going to call me ignorant again and take probably this phrase and quote it or something, tell me about how many people Saddam killed...and I tell you again: NOT AS MANY AS YOUR GOVERNMENT DID...do you get that?
Who the fuck do you think you are man to say what we are going to do about saddam....when it comes to OIL you are the first to go....when it comes to land you are the first to go...pretending to be saviors. Who do u think u are? John Maclane in Die Hard? or Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon?
Certainly you must think you are on a movie because you seem to think that you are The Producer, The Director and The Leading Actor on this planet.....
When you see so many people protesting against this war, I wonder whether you feel that something is wrong with what you are doing....
I know...you are going to call me ignorant again and take probably this phrase and quote it or something, tell me about how many people Saddam killed...and I tell you again: NOT AS MANY AS YOUR GOVERNMENT DID...do you get that?
Name one nation for me, in the history of this world, that has accumulated more power and used it for more good than the United States. Who else has rid the world of Naziism, totalitarianism, Communism, etc? Which other nation has sent out billions of dollars in aid to 3rd world countries to help cure hunger, and to give proper medical attention to those who need it? Name some instances of American arrogance. Was it when we saved Europe from Hitler, or when we stopped mass murders in Kosovo, Somalia, Rwanda, Grenada, Panama, Columbia, etc? Sure, there have been some things that we aren't proud of, but if you know (as you should) anything about the history of YOUR country, then you'll see some not-so-good things as well. (I say that not knowing where you live, but with the common knowledge that every country has numerous things in its history that it isn't proud of)
You probably also need to learn the definition of Oprahfication (from Oprah Winfrey, of course):
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r
And when I see Iraqi citizens lighting fire to pictures of Saddam Hussein and shaking the hands of coalition troops, cheering and dancing in the streets, it gives one a feeling that we're doing the right thing. You should realize something. I don't matter. You don't matter. Nobody matters right now except those Iraqi people in cities that are now controlled by the coalition, and those that await liberation. And you know what? Those people are happy.
You probably also need to learn the definition of Oprahfication (from Oprah Winfrey, of course):
Oprahfication®: applying emotion to logical debates in an attempt at legitimzing personal feelings as factual
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r
A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."
When you see so many people protesting against this war, I wonder whether you feel that something is wrong with what you are doing....
And when I see Iraqi citizens lighting fire to pictures of Saddam Hussein and shaking the hands of coalition troops, cheering and dancing in the streets, it gives one a feeling that we're doing the right thing. You should realize something. I don't matter. You don't matter. Nobody matters right now except those Iraqi people in cities that are now controlled by the coalition, and those that await liberation. And you know what? Those people are happy.
First of all, all governments are power hungry - The americans might want oil/whatever I'm not in a good position to say that, not being american. But I know a couple things about the other governments, which may have already been said :
France (My country before you call me american) have a $130 billion contract for the oil in the area...I wonder what they would have said if Saddam lived in Korea...
Russia has been killing people in Chetchnya for years and no one cares...again I would like to thank the UN for acting.
China has ben killing people in Tibet/Nepal for years and no one even cares there either. Again, thanks to the UN, for being the international peace force - who acts everywhere.
Germany can't really say much about anything seen as their interests in Iraq aren't any lower than those of France.
Iraq has killed thousands of people and just by being a smaller country than the USA they appear as the poor little boys being hit on by the big bad bullies.
Remember one thing people : Those refusing to acknowledge their past will only go to live it again...
Remember and think about everything the USA does for you. If you truly dont like the USA, then, as someone already has pointed, give up coca cola, mcdonalds, computers, the internet, the whole worlds economy, the UN (which the USA has put an extreme amount of money in that no one seems to care about...at all) and also give up many things which make your life today.
No one here can stop the war. Protests will only waste peoples tax money that they pay to get us a police force that can act and doesnt have to watch a million people walk around doing absolutely nothing but shout anti-war statements that no one shall listen to. If you are worried about iraqi people, go to god damn iraq and help the wounded you are so worried about.
Also don't say the americans have killed more people that Iraq. This is a war of information, as have the last wars of the last 30-40 years (I say that thanks to the arrival of the TV in nearly everyones homes). The Iraqi leaders can tell you whatever they like about the amount of people dead/wounded etc. BECAUSE NO ONE CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY. All you need to do is think of a random number that is about believable and send that to the worldwide press and bam! half of the world goes angry about a war they are thousands of miles away from.
Think. If you are worried go to Iraq and help out instead of saying stupid things. If you hate the americans then so be it, but dont take advantage of what america gives you and then flame it. I think if it wasn't for america, well my life as a 14 year old wouldn't be very fun...for all what it brings me.
France (My country before you call me american) have a $130 billion contract for the oil in the area...I wonder what they would have said if Saddam lived in Korea...
Russia has been killing people in Chetchnya for years and no one cares...again I would like to thank the UN for acting.
China has ben killing people in Tibet/Nepal for years and no one even cares there either. Again, thanks to the UN, for being the international peace force - who acts everywhere.
Germany can't really say much about anything seen as their interests in Iraq aren't any lower than those of France.
Iraq has killed thousands of people and just by being a smaller country than the USA they appear as the poor little boys being hit on by the big bad bullies.
Remember one thing people : Those refusing to acknowledge their past will only go to live it again...
Remember and think about everything the USA does for you. If you truly dont like the USA, then, as someone already has pointed, give up coca cola, mcdonalds, computers, the internet, the whole worlds economy, the UN (which the USA has put an extreme amount of money in that no one seems to care about...at all) and also give up many things which make your life today.
No one here can stop the war. Protests will only waste peoples tax money that they pay to get us a police force that can act and doesnt have to watch a million people walk around doing absolutely nothing but shout anti-war statements that no one shall listen to. If you are worried about iraqi people, go to god damn iraq and help the wounded you are so worried about.
Also don't say the americans have killed more people that Iraq. This is a war of information, as have the last wars of the last 30-40 years (I say that thanks to the arrival of the TV in nearly everyones homes). The Iraqi leaders can tell you whatever they like about the amount of people dead/wounded etc. BECAUSE NO ONE CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY. All you need to do is think of a random number that is about believable and send that to the worldwide press and bam! half of the world goes angry about a war they are thousands of miles away from.
Think. If you are worried go to Iraq and help out instead of saying stupid things. If you hate the americans then so be it, but dont take advantage of what america gives you and then flame it. I think if it wasn't for america, well my life as a 14 year old wouldn't be very fun...for all what it brings me.
when we stopped mass murders in Kosovo, Somalia, Rwanda, Grenada, Panama, Columbia, etc
you STOPPED mass murders???????????????? what the f...
Kosovo??? You fuckin killed us there man...you bombed everything...our hospitals, our children.....You said you would do good but THOUSANDS of people died there because of you...but of course after that you claimed that there was only 100 dead and it was by mistake.....DID A FUCKING TRAIN GOT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR MISSILES? ohhh sorry it will not happen again the next time everybody will let you shoot without saying anything.....
Did your president tell you that you did good there? well done....
I bet he told you that you do good in Iraq I guess that is why you are here opposing to what I say.....
Oh yea we did stop mass murders.
Nobody said war was cost-free. I have 2 friends who are from Albania and they have relatives in Kosovo. They are huge supporters of the US. Sorry, I dont believe a single word about you being in Kosovo.
Our president dont have to tell us anything, there are TVs, newspaper all around the world.
Nobody said war was cost-free. I have 2 friends who are from Albania and they have relatives in Kosovo. They are huge supporters of the US. Sorry, I dont believe a single word about you being in Kosovo.
Our president dont have to tell us anything, there are TVs, newspaper all around the world.
Like it matters what u believe.....I HAD family in Kosovo...I come from there....I am a UK resident right now after I lived in Greece for a while...
But its to everyone's perception of things that counts right? WRONG....
Shit talking like yours matches the shit talking of media....
And would they tell you if they killed a few thousands? I don't think so....
but what do you care....you are sure of what happened there right?....and if you knew Albanians as u said you wouldn't be talking like that man cause things over in Albania, kosovo, servia and the balkans are far from your notions......but oh..I forgot TV and Newspaers, right right...now I can see the truth...ohhhhh thats why you attacked Iraq...I see, well what can I say...THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! (and I would quote the first post of this forum)
But its to everyone's perception of things that counts right? WRONG....
Shit talking like yours matches the shit talking of media....
And would they tell you if they killed a few thousands? I don't think so....
but what do you care....you are sure of what happened there right?....and if you knew Albanians as u said you wouldn't be talking like that man cause things over in Albania, kosovo, servia and the balkans are far from your notions......but oh..I forgot TV and Newspaers, right right...now I can see the truth...ohhhhh thats why you attacked Iraq...I see, well what can I say...THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! (and I would quote the first post of this forum)
Shit talking like mine? Please. You are the one whos taking the shit talking to another level here. Yes they would tell the truth if people are murdered, perhaps you should try to grasp the concept of anti-US media. I know those Albanian friends i mentioned from work, they indeed told me they have nothing against the US, neither do their relatives in the Balkan. Until you stop voicing your opinions through emotion, you remain high on my list of morons. Maybe you should learn how to read, I NEVER said TV and news paper were (as you state) why we attacked Iraq. And did I hear a Thank You? Dont mention it.
Right, logic and fact are ignored...ok
I will tell you exactly why I think this war is wrong :
1. Iraq is NOT a threat. No Middle Eastern state has ever launched a military attack on the US or Britain and it would be a suicide for them to try as we (the rest of the world incl. US & UK) have infinitely more weapons of mass destruction than Iraq could possibly possess.
2. No credible evidence of a link to terrorism or any real weapons of mass destruction has been found by the weapons inspectors or presented by Bush (or Blair). Apart from the US/UK many countries - Israel, pakistan, India, China etc. - do have such weapons but Bush doesn't target any of them.
3. Bush is not opposed to Saddam because he is a Dictator. the US supplies arms and aid to many dictatorships around the world, like Saidi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan at present and Chile, Argentina, indonesia and Saddam himself in the past. Bush's objection to Saddam is that he is not a dictator in Bush's pocket.
4. The war is not liberating the Iraqi people. The US has bombed 21 countries since 1945 and none has resulted in genuine democracy. Saddam should be overthrown by his own people and not by bombs which will also kill these people.
5. The war is against the will of the majority of the world's people. this was shown in the vast demonstrations on Feb 15 - 2 million in london, 4 millinon in Spain, 2 million in rome, 600,000 in Berlin, 450,000 in New York and many many others - and reflected in the UN's refusal to endorse the war.
But I expected from you to think of all that as it is COMMON SENSE...
Now, Bush and Blair are not telling us the real reasons for this war. The US has had plans to attack Iraq for several years. What they want is to control Iraqi OIL - the second largest oil reserves in the world after Saudi Arabia - and reinforce American Power in the Middle East and Central Asia. They want to send a message to the world that no country can defy the US and get away with it. They want a world safe for Exxon, Texaco, McDonalds and General Motors and they saw the tragedy of 9/11 as an opportunity to get it.
Wel I say NO BLOOD FOR OIL...
.....and you say BULLSHIT
I will tell you exactly why I think this war is wrong :
1. Iraq is NOT a threat. No Middle Eastern state has ever launched a military attack on the US or Britain and it would be a suicide for them to try as we (the rest of the world incl. US & UK) have infinitely more weapons of mass destruction than Iraq could possibly possess.
2. No credible evidence of a link to terrorism or any real weapons of mass destruction has been found by the weapons inspectors or presented by Bush (or Blair). Apart from the US/UK many countries - Israel, pakistan, India, China etc. - do have such weapons but Bush doesn't target any of them.
3. Bush is not opposed to Saddam because he is a Dictator. the US supplies arms and aid to many dictatorships around the world, like Saidi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan at present and Chile, Argentina, indonesia and Saddam himself in the past. Bush's objection to Saddam is that he is not a dictator in Bush's pocket.
4. The war is not liberating the Iraqi people. The US has bombed 21 countries since 1945 and none has resulted in genuine democracy. Saddam should be overthrown by his own people and not by bombs which will also kill these people.
5. The war is against the will of the majority of the world's people. this was shown in the vast demonstrations on Feb 15 - 2 million in london, 4 millinon in Spain, 2 million in rome, 600,000 in Berlin, 450,000 in New York and many many others - and reflected in the UN's refusal to endorse the war.
But I expected from you to think of all that as it is COMMON SENSE...
Now, Bush and Blair are not telling us the real reasons for this war. The US has had plans to attack Iraq for several years. What they want is to control Iraqi OIL - the second largest oil reserves in the world after Saudi Arabia - and reinforce American Power in the Middle East and Central Asia. They want to send a message to the world that no country can defy the US and get away with it. They want a world safe for Exxon, Texaco, McDonalds and General Motors and they saw the tragedy of 9/11 as an opportunity to get it.
Wel I say NO BLOOD FOR OIL...
.....and you say BULLSHIT
Right, logic and fact are ignored...ok
1. Iraq is NOT a threat. No Middle Eastern state has ever launched a military attack on the US or Britain and it would be a suicide for them to try as we (the rest of the world incl. US & UK) have infinitely more weapons of mass destruction than Iraq could possibly possess.
Taliban never launched any military attack on the US, that didnt stop their harbored terrorist group from doing that
2. No credible evidence of a link to terrorism or any real weapons of mass destruction has been found by the weapons inspectors or presented by Bush (or Blair). Apart from the US/UK many countries - Israel, pakistan, India, China etc. - do have such weapons but Bush doesn't target any of them.
Hussein kicked the UN inspectors out 4 years ago, it took another 4 years for him to let them back in. If you believe he doesnt pocess banned weapons, you are in huge denial. Talking about UN inspectors cant find any banned weapon in their latest attempt, Iraq just fired 2 SCUDs
3. Bush is not opposed to Saddam because he is a Dictator. the US supplies arms and aid to many dictatorships around the world, like Saidi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan at present and Chile, Argentina, indonesia and Saddam himself in the past. Bush's objection to Saddam is that he is not a dictator in Bush's pocket.
OR Saddam's a threat to the US
4. The war is not liberating the Iraqi people. The US has bombed 21 countries since 1945 and none has resulted in genuine democracy. Saddam should be overthrown by his own people and not by bombs which will also kill these people.
LOL, I dont even wanna debate with you anymore. This would be my last attempt wasting my time debating with you, unless of course you make any intelligent argument in the future. None has resulted in democracy? Check out Germany, Japan, S Korea. Need I mention that none of the countries France, China, Russia bombed resulted in democracy?
5. The war is against the will of the majority of the world's people. this was shown in the vast demonstrations on Feb 15 - 2 million in london, 4 millinon in Spain, 2 million in rome, 600,000 in Berlin, 450,000 in New York and many many others - and reflected in the UN's refusal to endorse the war.
The sum of the number you provided actually make up 1% of the world's population.
But I expected from you to think of all that as it is COMMON SENSE...
You have the common sense of a 12 year old, so whats your point?
Now, Bush and Blair are not telling us the real reasons for this war. The US has had plans to attack Iraq for several years. What they want is to control Iraqi OIL - the second largest oil reserves in the world after Saudi Arabia - and reinforce American Power in the Middle East and Central Asia. They want to send a message to the world that no country can defy the US and get away with it. They want a world safe for Exxon, Texaco, McDonalds and General Motors and they saw the tragedy of 9/11 as an opportunity to get it.
Again, none of this is backed by facts. Sorry.
Taliban never launched any military attack on the US, that didnt stop their harbored terrorist group from doing that
Oh ok...so lets bomb Iraq!!!!
Quote:
3. Bush is not opposed to Saddam because he is a Dictator. the US supplies arms and aid to many dictatorships around the world, like Saidi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan at present and Chile, Argentina, indonesia and Saddam himself in the past. Bush's objection to Saddam is that he is not a dictator in Bush's pocket.
OR Saddam's a threat to the US
Threat???? to the US???? are u kidding me???
The sum of the number you provided actually make up 1% of the world's population
So you wanna tell me that the other 99% supports the bombing??? Are you stupid????
Oh I know...
- Mr President, we think Bin Laden has something to do with the 9/11 incident !!
- Really?? Lets Bomb Iraq
- Mr President, your wife cheated on you !!!!
- WHAT??? Lets Bomb Iraq then....
One thing I admit about the Americans is that they are very funny people indeed!!!
Those who do not consider Iraq a threat and that he can be disarmed with diplomacy are hopelessly naive. And if you are really comparing our nuclear arsenal with Saddam's right to have one, then thank God that you have no power over anything or anyone. The US doesn't kill civilians mercilessly. The US doesn't kill political opponents. The US doesn't launch chemical weapons at neighboring countries. Etc, etc, etc. Again, this debate is pointless; your arguments are mindless and baseless. It is absurd to say that no middle eastern country attacked the US. You must have been asleep in September 2001!
" The US doesn't kill civilians mercilessly "
No, not mercilessly....they drop food after they are done with the killings...they are true humanitarians!!!!!!
and as I said before....
- President Bush, we THINK that Bin Laden is behind the terrorist attack in 9/11
- You think so?? Lets Bomb Iraq then!!!!
(who is next?)
-----------------------
Intel 486 DX4 100MHz
Soyo MoBo Vesa Local Bus
S3 Virge 2MB !!!
4 MB EDO RAM
256 MB Western Digital
5 1/4 Floppy Disk drive
14" NEC Interlaced
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No, not mercilessly....they drop food after they are done with the killings...they are true humanitarians!!!!!!
and as I said before....
- President Bush, we THINK that Bin Laden is behind the terrorist attack in 9/11
- You think so?? Lets Bomb Iraq then!!!!
(who is next?)
-----------------------
Intel 486 DX4 100MHz
Soyo MoBo Vesa Local Bus
S3 Virge 2MB !!!
4 MB EDO RAM
256 MB Western Digital
5 1/4 Floppy Disk drive
14" NEC Interlaced
-----------------------
Those who do not consider Iraq a threat and that he can be disarmed with diplomacy are hopelessly naive. And if you are really comparing our nuclear arsenal with Saddam's right to have one, then thank God that you have no power over anything or anyone. The US doesn't kill civilians mercilessly. The US doesn't kill political opponents. The US doesn't launch chemical weapons at neighboring countries. Etc, etc, etc. Again, this debate is pointless; your arguments are mindless and baseless. It is absurd to say that no middle eastern country attacked the US. You must have been asleep in September 2001!
US does kill politicians covertly. President Kennedy, M.L.King, Robert Kennedy, former Governor of Missori Canaham, Senator Wellstone....
US kill civillians by chemical weapon by the hands of its puppets. Saddam using chemical weapon on Iranian and Kurds in 80's when US supported him to fight against Iran.
US is a terrorist export country.
Terrorist Training Camp at Ft. Benning
Quote, " the Pentagon trained militants at the school that advocated the use of torture, extortion and execution. They cultivated many dictators whom killed a lot of innocent people.
Among the SOA's nearly 60,000 graduates are notorious dictators Manuel Noriega and Omar Torrijos of Panama, Leopoldo Galtieri and Roberto Viola of Argentina, Juan Velasco Alvarado of Peru, Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, and Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia. Lower-level SOA graduates have participated in human rights abuses that include the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the El Mozote Massacre of 900 civilians. "
http://www.soaw.org/new/index.php
Do the people of these country have the reason to start a pre-emptive war with US?
US does kill politicians covertly. President Kennedy, M.L.King, Robert Kennedy, former Governor of Missori Canaham, Senator Wellstone....
US kill civillians by chemical weapon by the hands of its puppets. Saddam using chemical weapon on Iranian and Kurds in 80's when US supported him to fight against Iran.
US is a terrorist export country.
Terrorist Training Camp at Ft. Benning
Quote, " the Pentagon trained militants at the school that advocated the use of torture, extortion and execution. They cultivated many dictators whom killed a lot of innocent people.
Among the SOA's nearly 60,000 graduates are notorious dictators Manuel Noriega and Omar Torrijos of Panama, Leopoldo Galtieri and Roberto Viola of Argentina, Juan Velasco Alvarado of Peru, Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, and Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia. Lower-level SOA graduates have participated in human rights abuses that include the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the El Mozote Massacre of 900 civilians. "
http://www.soaw.org/new/index.php
Do the people of these country have the reason to start a pre-emptive war with US?
I somewhat believe our government's involvement in those politician's assassinations, so i give you that.
US does not kill people through its puppet regimes by chemical weapons. Exporting chemical doesnt mean exporting chemical weapons. Exporting chemical to a country doesnt mean we know that they will use that to kill people. And that doesnt mean we cant fix our past mistakes either.
www.soaw.org is just another govt conspiracy website, ive had enough of these crap websites on the internet. While you are at it, go visit http://www.warheads.biz/ ,atleast you might get some entertainment from it.
US does not kill people through its puppet regimes by chemical weapons. Exporting chemical doesnt mean exporting chemical weapons. Exporting chemical to a country doesnt mean we know that they will use that to kill people. And that doesnt mean we can fix our past mistakes either
You certainly cannot fix your past mistakes....and when the present becomes your past in the future these are the words you will be saying again about your mistakes now.....
CAPJPUK wrote:
"...if all the world voted for this war and thought that it was necessary as you say it is then I would not object and I would think that maybe im wrong and the war is the only solution, but when the whole world OBJECTS who the f**k are the Americans to judge any situation what is wrong and what is right? who the f**k said that your opinion about war is more important that alla the other countries' opinions?"
I can't believe you just stated that!!! I am sitting here laughing at YOU and that statement. You think that we (the United States) are not the only ones for this war. Pinch yourself because I truly think you are dreaming. You can't comprehend the death and destruction Saddam has caused. You can't comprehend what we accomplished in Kosovo. You are an uneducated fool with no facts to support your claims. People that will read your posts will see that you lack support of material proof of your accusations about the United States.
Saddam has killed thousands of his own people by gassing them (Kurds). He has once told his military to shoot defectors. He has told his military to kill the families of the defectors loved ones. Saddam has just recently turned artillary on his OWN people. He has hid military in hospitals and created human-shields for military targets. He has persued chemical and biological weapons... even tried to become a nuclear state... and not to use nuclear as a means for power and energy but for death and destruction.
Why do you think he is doing this? The UN can't even sway him. Believe me, the UN has tried time and time again. They have allowed violations time and time again. We have allowed this for 12yrs. Do you understand? Has he changed? No... Has he destroyed the chemical and biological weapons? Well... he "says" he has but he can't show a shread of evidence showing that he's done this. Has he stopped making weapons of mass destruction? Hmmm, I don't know what you'd call persuing nuclear capabilities or"dirty bomb"making materials. But... wait... you don't want to forget that he has made drones specifically for dumping chemical and biological weapons. And, we just found out that he made one that can be controlled at an even greater distance. Hey, you know what... I think that could be used as crop dusting. I am sure that he wouldn't design it for carrying out "bad things."
Associated Press:
"Easy to find and easy to produce, botulinum toxin is the most poisonous natural substance on Earth. In the hands of a bioterrorist, a single gram — the weight of a paper clip — could kill more than 1 million people. The issue takes on particular urgency as the United States wages war with Iraq. In 1995, Iraq told the United Nations that it had made more than 5,000 gallons of botulinum toxin and loaded much of it into bombs and warheads. Inspectors believe Saddam Hussein actually has materials capable of producing twice as much toxin — enough to kill the entire human population three times over."
Don't worry people... Saddam "said" he dumped it all down the toilet! Thank goodness he did that... and thank CAPJPUK for believing him!
Listen up, I hope our boys (American, Britian, and the Aussies) come back in as few body bags as possible. I wish the soldiers that help to rid our planet of evil be blessed by the higher powers that be. I hope the Iraqi people see as little death and destruction as need be. I hope others that are pro-war in this situation don't kick back on their couches and let the anti's be heard only. Please show your support.
"We will eventually have our peace... if not, you will preemptively be judged."
*** BTW... I commend both JANUS & DAREL for their truthful work in exposing the facts about the war.
Judge
"...if all the world voted for this war and thought that it was necessary as you say it is then I would not object and I would think that maybe im wrong and the war is the only solution, but when the whole world OBJECTS who the f**k are the Americans to judge any situation what is wrong and what is right? who the f**k said that your opinion about war is more important that alla the other countries' opinions?"
I can't believe you just stated that!!! I am sitting here laughing at YOU and that statement. You think that we (the United States) are not the only ones for this war. Pinch yourself because I truly think you are dreaming. You can't comprehend the death and destruction Saddam has caused. You can't comprehend what we accomplished in Kosovo. You are an uneducated fool with no facts to support your claims. People that will read your posts will see that you lack support of material proof of your accusations about the United States.
Saddam has killed thousands of his own people by gassing them (Kurds). He has once told his military to shoot defectors. He has told his military to kill the families of the defectors loved ones. Saddam has just recently turned artillary on his OWN people. He has hid military in hospitals and created human-shields for military targets. He has persued chemical and biological weapons... even tried to become a nuclear state... and not to use nuclear as a means for power and energy but for death and destruction.
Why do you think he is doing this? The UN can't even sway him. Believe me, the UN has tried time and time again. They have allowed violations time and time again. We have allowed this for 12yrs. Do you understand? Has he changed? No... Has he destroyed the chemical and biological weapons? Well... he "says" he has but he can't show a shread of evidence showing that he's done this. Has he stopped making weapons of mass destruction? Hmmm, I don't know what you'd call persuing nuclear capabilities or"dirty bomb"making materials. But... wait... you don't want to forget that he has made drones specifically for dumping chemical and biological weapons. And, we just found out that he made one that can be controlled at an even greater distance. Hey, you know what... I think that could be used as crop dusting. I am sure that he wouldn't design it for carrying out "bad things."
Associated Press:
"Easy to find and easy to produce, botulinum toxin is the most poisonous natural substance on Earth. In the hands of a bioterrorist, a single gram — the weight of a paper clip — could kill more than 1 million people. The issue takes on particular urgency as the United States wages war with Iraq. In 1995, Iraq told the United Nations that it had made more than 5,000 gallons of botulinum toxin and loaded much of it into bombs and warheads. Inspectors believe Saddam Hussein actually has materials capable of producing twice as much toxin — enough to kill the entire human population three times over."
Don't worry people... Saddam "said" he dumped it all down the toilet! Thank goodness he did that... and thank CAPJPUK for believing him!
Listen up, I hope our boys (American, Britian, and the Aussies) come back in as few body bags as possible. I wish the soldiers that help to rid our planet of evil be blessed by the higher powers that be. I hope the Iraqi people see as little death and destruction as need be. I hope others that are pro-war in this situation don't kick back on their couches and let the anti's be heard only. Please show your support.
"We will eventually have our peace... if not, you will preemptively be judged."
*** BTW... I commend both JANUS & DAREL for their truthful work in exposing the facts about the war.
Judge
Don't worry people... Saddam "said" he dumped it all down the toilet! Thank goodness he did that... and thank CAPJPUK for believing him!
You know what?.... Saddam might have lied, but your American government " Said " they had proof about Bin Laden, they "said" they have proof about Saddam. Where is it? we saw not real proof you stupid ignorant fool....YOU are worse f**king liers than Saddam is. WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE YOU???? WHY SHOULD WE TRUST THE US???? Oh...maybe because you "say so" ?....ok then....lets Bomb the whole fucking planet and then drop some food over to them because we are true humanitarians....
If Bush wants Saddam let him go and get him by himself. At least he might get some respect this way......its pathetic
Yeah OK, if we shouldn't trust the US we shouldn't trust anyone by the same logic. How about we just all shut up and stop this US-Flaming thread.
