War On Iraq - Personal Statement
Mr. Thomsen and myself, Mr. Mertin, the owners of this website, have observed the latest political and military developments since Wednesday with the most sincere concern.
This topic was started by Rancho*,
Mr. Thomsen and myself, Mr. Mertin, the owners of this website, have observed the latest political and military developments since Wednesday with the most sincere concern. In our opinion it is a tragedy that it has come so far and that all peaceful efforts were thrown aside as the U.S. have begun their attacks. No question that a dictatorship may not be the best political system to have in a country but is that really our's to decide on? And are there not other countries in the far east that should be observed with similar concern?
The United Nations Security Council has been rendered ineffective by the decision George W. Bush has made. We admit though that politics would have taken a much longer time frame. Our thoughts are with the victims of this war - Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the frontiers.
Worldwide acclaimed brazilian author Paul Coelho, author of “The Alchemistâ€, amongst other works, and member of the Brazilian Academy of Arts & Letters, wrote the following critical open letter to the President of the United States...
A Folha de Sao Paulo
First published: http://www.folha.uol.com.br/folha/
Author: Paul Coelho
March 8, 2003
Thank you, George Bush, the Great Leader.
First of all, may I thank you for showing all of us the danger which Saddam Hussein represents. Perhaps many of us might have forgotten that he used chemical weapons against his own people as well as against the people of Iran. Hussein is a blood-thirsty dictator, and certainly an embodiment of evil in the world today.
However, that is not the only reason why I am thanking you. In the early months of 2003, you helped show us, sir, many important things about the world, and it is for this that you have my gratitude. I was taught as child to always say "thank you" to someone who has done me a favor, and it is in that spirit that I write these words.
Thank you for showing us all that the people of Turkey and their Parliament are not for sale, not even for $26 billion dollars.
Thank you for showing us clearly the enormous abyss which exists between the decisions taken by leaders of nations and the true desires of their people. Thank you for helping us see with painful clarity that whether it is José Aznar of Spain or Tony Blair of the UK, that our so called elected leaders don´t have the slightest regard or respect for the fact that over 90% of their population are against war. Thank you for allowing us to witness the ease with whichTony Blair was able to blithely ignore the largest public protest held in England in the last 30 years.
Thank you, because your insistence on war forced Blair to go to Parliament with a plagiarized dossier which consisted of notes written ten years ago by an arab graduate student. As a result we were able to witness the unbelievable farce of Blair insisting that these notes represented “proof†gathered by the British secret service.
Thank you for for making Colin Powell descend to the ridiculous by showing the UN Security Council photographs, which a week later were publicly denounced by Hans Blix, the weapons inspector responsible for verifying the disarmament of Iraq
Thank you, because your position on war resulted in the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Dominique de Villepin, in his speech against war on Iraq, being honored by a standing ovation. This is an honor which, if I am correct, has only happened once before in the history of the U.N., and that was during a presentation by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you, because due to your strenuous push for war, for the first time the Arab nations of the Gulf, usually so divided, have found a reason to unite and have recently issued a joint resolution in Cairo condemning your proposed invasion. You have brought about a unity of opinion amongst the arab nations, that they had not achieved on their own.
Thank you, because as a result of your administration´s rhetoric blasting the United Nations as “irrelevantâ€, even the most undecided and reluctant nations have been inspired to take a position against your country´s attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your extraordinary foreign policy. Attempts to defend your ambitions have caused British Foreign Minister Jack Straw, to attempt to argue a case for a “moral warâ€, and with each attempt lose more international credibility.
Thank you for attempting to divide Europe, which after a century of war and upheaval has been fighting for unity. This was a warning clearly seen by all of us, and it will not be forgotten.
Thank you for finally managing to achieve what few have managed in the past century: to unite millions of people, across the continents and give them a common cause to fight for, even if that cause is the exact opposite from yours.
Thank you for letting us feel that even if our words are not being heard, they are at least being repeated. This will give us strength in the future.
Thank you, because without your esteemed help, we wouldn´t have known the extent to which we were capable of mobilizing. Perhaps this appears useless today...but it will serve us in the future.
Thank you.
So, now that the drums of war seem to beat with unstoppable ferocity, I want to add an insight, words uttered by an ancient European King to a would-be invader:
“May your morning be glorious and May the sun shine brightly on the armor of your soldiers, because in the afternoon I will defeat you.â€
Mr. Bush, thank you as well for visibly trying to stop a movement which has already begun. We will pay attention to the feelings of impotence, and the sensations it arouses within us. We will learn to deal with those emotions, and we will transform them.
In the meantime, may you enjoy your beautiful morning, and all the glory that it may bring you.
Thank you, because I know you will not listen to us, nor take us seriously. Know, however, that we have listened to you and heard you clearly, and we will not soon forget your words.
Thank you, George W. Bush, the great leader!
Many thanks to you.
Mr. Coelho certainly has his points. We would like to point out that this is our personal opinion about this war. Feel free to leave a comment if you wish.
Translation from portugese: Blogspot.com
The War at a glance @ BBC UK
The United Nations Security Council has been rendered ineffective by the decision George W. Bush has made. We admit though that politics would have taken a much longer time frame. Our thoughts are with the victims of this war - Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the frontiers.
Worldwide acclaimed brazilian author Paul Coelho, author of “The Alchemistâ€, amongst other works, and member of the Brazilian Academy of Arts & Letters, wrote the following critical open letter to the President of the United States...
A Folha de Sao Paulo
First published: http://www.folha.uol.com.br/folha/
Author: Paul Coelho
March 8, 2003
Thank you, George Bush, the Great Leader.
First of all, may I thank you for showing all of us the danger which Saddam Hussein represents. Perhaps many of us might have forgotten that he used chemical weapons against his own people as well as against the people of Iran. Hussein is a blood-thirsty dictator, and certainly an embodiment of evil in the world today.
However, that is not the only reason why I am thanking you. In the early months of 2003, you helped show us, sir, many important things about the world, and it is for this that you have my gratitude. I was taught as child to always say "thank you" to someone who has done me a favor, and it is in that spirit that I write these words.
Thank you for showing us all that the people of Turkey and their Parliament are not for sale, not even for $26 billion dollars.
Thank you for showing us clearly the enormous abyss which exists between the decisions taken by leaders of nations and the true desires of their people. Thank you for helping us see with painful clarity that whether it is José Aznar of Spain or Tony Blair of the UK, that our so called elected leaders don´t have the slightest regard or respect for the fact that over 90% of their population are against war. Thank you for allowing us to witness the ease with whichTony Blair was able to blithely ignore the largest public protest held in England in the last 30 years.
Thank you, because your insistence on war forced Blair to go to Parliament with a plagiarized dossier which consisted of notes written ten years ago by an arab graduate student. As a result we were able to witness the unbelievable farce of Blair insisting that these notes represented “proof†gathered by the British secret service.
Thank you for for making Colin Powell descend to the ridiculous by showing the UN Security Council photographs, which a week later were publicly denounced by Hans Blix, the weapons inspector responsible for verifying the disarmament of Iraq
Thank you, because your position on war resulted in the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Dominique de Villepin, in his speech against war on Iraq, being honored by a standing ovation. This is an honor which, if I am correct, has only happened once before in the history of the U.N., and that was during a presentation by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you, because due to your strenuous push for war, for the first time the Arab nations of the Gulf, usually so divided, have found a reason to unite and have recently issued a joint resolution in Cairo condemning your proposed invasion. You have brought about a unity of opinion amongst the arab nations, that they had not achieved on their own.
Thank you, because as a result of your administration´s rhetoric blasting the United Nations as “irrelevantâ€, even the most undecided and reluctant nations have been inspired to take a position against your country´s attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your extraordinary foreign policy. Attempts to defend your ambitions have caused British Foreign Minister Jack Straw, to attempt to argue a case for a “moral warâ€, and with each attempt lose more international credibility.
Thank you for attempting to divide Europe, which after a century of war and upheaval has been fighting for unity. This was a warning clearly seen by all of us, and it will not be forgotten.
Thank you for finally managing to achieve what few have managed in the past century: to unite millions of people, across the continents and give them a common cause to fight for, even if that cause is the exact opposite from yours.
Thank you for letting us feel that even if our words are not being heard, they are at least being repeated. This will give us strength in the future.
Thank you, because without your esteemed help, we wouldn´t have known the extent to which we were capable of mobilizing. Perhaps this appears useless today...but it will serve us in the future.
Thank you.
So, now that the drums of war seem to beat with unstoppable ferocity, I want to add an insight, words uttered by an ancient European King to a would-be invader:
“May your morning be glorious and May the sun shine brightly on the armor of your soldiers, because in the afternoon I will defeat you.â€
Mr. Bush, thank you as well for visibly trying to stop a movement which has already begun. We will pay attention to the feelings of impotence, and the sensations it arouses within us. We will learn to deal with those emotions, and we will transform them.
In the meantime, may you enjoy your beautiful morning, and all the glory that it may bring you.
Thank you, because I know you will not listen to us, nor take us seriously. Know, however, that we have listened to you and heard you clearly, and we will not soon forget your words.
Thank you, George W. Bush, the great leader!
Many thanks to you.
Mr. Coelho certainly has his points. We would like to point out that this is our personal opinion about this war. Feel free to leave a comment if you wish.
Translation from portugese: Blogspot.com
The War at a glance @ BBC UK
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Responses to this topic
Please, good point my butt. His opinions are greatly exagerated to trash the US president. We, as the world have the right to remove Saddam from power ever since he invaded Kuwait.
The security council had been proven to be ineffective in the past by other countries, but when the US do it for their own security, theyre portrayed as the big bad guys. Give me a break
Im Chinese, my family moved here to Atl, GA 7 years ago. I love this country so much Im even joining the Army in June. Americans are great people, Im getting tired of all this crap they getting from the whole world. If it wasnt for their foreign policy, we all would be speaking German or Japanese by now
The security council had been proven to be ineffective in the past by other countries, but when the US do it for their own security, theyre portrayed as the big bad guys. Give me a break
Im Chinese, my family moved here to Atl, GA 7 years ago. I love this country so much Im even joining the Army in June. Americans are great people, Im getting tired of all this crap they getting from the whole world. If it wasnt for their foreign policy, we all would be speaking German or Japanese by now
First off all: who gives the right to the US to ignore the UN and act as a global judge? The answer : Power (military and financial).
So lets admitted that is the law of the jungle: the stronger does anything he likes.
You thing that the war is happening for anything else than the oil and the control of the area?
And no matter who you are and where you are coming from you must thing that peace is the ultimate gift and war brings nothing else than death ,pain and suffer.
So lets admitted that is the law of the jungle: the stronger does anything he likes.
You thing that the war is happening for anything else than the oil and the control of the area?
And no matter who you are and where you are coming from you must thing that peace is the ultimate gift and war brings nothing else than death ,pain and suffer.
As said in the first reply...... I thought this was a "Tech Site" ( and a damm good one at that ) NOT a News/Political site?
Like alot of people I have my views on the subject ( right or wrong ) BUT to be honest I want to escape the NEWS once in a while... to the sanctuary of the computerworld.
But I will add this at the UN @ 8th Nov 2002 all 15 Security Council members ( including the French) voted unanimously in favour of artical 1441
The serious consequences part of 1441 we are seeing now?!
I will finish on this....... Political debates only end up with members hurling insults, flaming etc etc
This IMO is not the way tech sites should go WE are all on these sites to help each outer not fall out!
Anyhow :D
Like alot of people I have my views on the subject ( right or wrong ) BUT to be honest I want to escape the NEWS once in a while... to the sanctuary of the computerworld.
But I will add this at the UN @ 8th Nov 2002 all 15 Security Council members ( including the French) voted unanimously in favour of artical 1441
By the unanimous adoption of resolution 1441 (2002), the Council instructed the resumed inspections to begin within 45 days, and also decided it would convene immediately upon the receipt of any reports from inspection authorities that Iraq was interfering with their activities. It recalled, in that context, that the Council had repeatedly warned Iraq that it would face "serious consequences" as a result of continued violations.
The serious consequences part of 1441 we are seeing now?!
I will finish on this....... Political debates only end up with members hurling insults, flaming etc etc
This IMO is not the way tech sites should go WE are all on these sites to help each outer not fall out!
Anyhow :D
First off all: who gives the right to the US to ignore the UN and act as a global judge? The answer : Power (military and financial)..
In this case, Moral Cause
You thing that the war is happening for anything else than the oil and the control of the area?
Like I pointed out, most people who reject thiswar are motivated by their anti-american views. How do you compare "controlling area" to "saving the lives of the Iraqi people"? By the way if the US want oil from Iraq, we would be kissing Saddam's butt just like France and Russia are doing.
And no matter who you are and where you are coming from you must thing that peace is the ultimate gift and war brings nothing else than death ,pain and suffer.
war brings other positive things too.
Well I don't want to make people angry here or anything, but I agree with the writers points, but not all of them. Indeed other countries made the council pretty much irrelevant in the past, but that doesn't stop it being practically non-existant today.
If Saddam is the problem then please dont tell me it isn't possible to get rid of him without setting the whole of the middle east on fire. I wouldn't believe it, in fact. But then again finding Bin Laden was also a case of setting the whole of Afganistan on fire...which didn't work.
Now don't get me wrong, I think Saddam Hussein was (and is) a menace to his people and others, but I don't think sending all the "Big Guns" was necessary, nor was tearing the world apart into 2 opinions.
Yes, war can bring positive things. In this case Saddam Hussein off power would be positive. But the many deaths that are happening as we speak (Bombing of Iraq live on my TV right now, in France) aren't negligible...
And about politics here, I thought the fact it was in "Off Topic" made it a kinda "Non-Tech" post...correct me if wrong.
If Saddam is the problem then please dont tell me it isn't possible to get rid of him without setting the whole of the middle east on fire. I wouldn't believe it, in fact. But then again finding Bin Laden was also a case of setting the whole of Afganistan on fire...which didn't work.
Now don't get me wrong, I think Saddam Hussein was (and is) a menace to his people and others, but I don't think sending all the "Big Guns" was necessary, nor was tearing the world apart into 2 opinions.
Yes, war can bring positive things. In this case Saddam Hussein off power would be positive. But the many deaths that are happening as we speak (Bombing of Iraq live on my TV right now, in France) aren't negligible...
And about politics here, I thought the fact it was in "Off Topic" made it a kinda "Non-Tech" post...correct me if wrong.
I am beyond sick of hearing this nonsense!!!
Tell the families of the 911 victims that we don't belong in Iraq right now! Tell them that it is not appropriate to go after a leader who supports and funds terrorists (including the very terrorists that caused the deaths of their loved ones)!!! Tell them that it is OK to let the leader of any country kill thousands of his own people, just because they didn't agree with him.
Sadam had 12 years to comply with the UN solution. He has done nothing to comply, or even indicated he is willing to. The UN security council HAS been rendered ineffective! Not by Bush's decision, but by their own actions (or lack of action). They are now viewed as impotant by many countries, not just the US. They can issue warnings all they want, but until they are willing to act, which they have clearly demonstrated they are not, they will not be complied with.
For those who support sanctions.... Sanctions punish the people more than it does the leadership.
The great thing about freedom, which too many seem to take for granted, is that even thogh I think you are wrong... I support your right to state your case.
And by the way.... if it wasn't for the sacrifices of brave men and women, who stood up to tyrants like Sadam, you would probably be in prison or dead right now for even printing this. :roll:
Tell the families of the 911 victims that we don't belong in Iraq right now! Tell them that it is not appropriate to go after a leader who supports and funds terrorists (including the very terrorists that caused the deaths of their loved ones)!!! Tell them that it is OK to let the leader of any country kill thousands of his own people, just because they didn't agree with him.
Sadam had 12 years to comply with the UN solution. He has done nothing to comply, or even indicated he is willing to. The UN security council HAS been rendered ineffective! Not by Bush's decision, but by their own actions (or lack of action). They are now viewed as impotant by many countries, not just the US. They can issue warnings all they want, but until they are willing to act, which they have clearly demonstrated they are not, they will not be complied with.
For those who support sanctions.... Sanctions punish the people more than it does the leadership.
The great thing about freedom, which too many seem to take for granted, is that even thogh I think you are wrong... I support your right to state your case.
And by the way.... if it wasn't for the sacrifices of brave men and women, who stood up to tyrants like Sadam, you would probably be in prison or dead right now for even printing this. :roll:
The great thing about freedom, which too many seem to take for granted, is that even thogh I think you are wrong... I support your right to state your case.
I couldn't help but totally agree with that...and also respect your case...for what it can bring to Iraq.
First, I don't mind having the topic of war present on a tech site. It is in the right forum 'Off Topic' after all.
Second, I, as an American am resentful to all other countries in the world. Even in UN supported operations, the United States is given the responsibility to give the most men, money, and equipment. I resent the world looking to the United States to act as global policeman. I also think part of the blame is shouldered by US foriegn policy. I have yet to see France, Spain, England, China, India, and any other country you could name step forward and offer to lead the charge in a UN supported military action. Technological advancement isn't a factor in this issue. For this issue is purely by principle. So, until any country wishes to undertake the majority of military planning and execution in a UN supported action, I say, you have little room to criticize.
Third, I like the idea of the United Nations. A body of world representives given a place to present and solve local and global problems. But I think what is endemic to the UN is human nature. I think there will be times the emergencies of an individual country will not be properly addressed. So, it is up to that country go it alone. Sure it goes against the UN, but does that make it wrong?
Fourth, I've known for a long time that this war with Iraq was going to happen. The events around the liberation of Kuwait in 1991 and afterward first gave the idea. But the moment the US mobilized its first troops and equipment to the Gulf region, I knew war was inevitable. I knew it was a no lose situation for George W. Bush. If he built up military presence in the Gulf and went to war with Iraq, he'd win. If he built up military presence and had to turn back. He'd still win. For I think he could make his case that a threat so large does exist, it required a huge military presence to force it's hand, therefore, let's increase military budget spending! Which Republicans, conservatives, are well known for.
Lastly, if George W. Bush doesn't like Saddam Hussein, he's in a position to do something about it. I'm sorry you don't understand. If Russia, France, and other oppositional countries really wanted to stop the United States they'd mobilize there military to stand in our way. The US is not foolish enough to start a war with France, Russia, etc. If this all meant that much to them, there is alot more they could do to show it, and they aren't.
It is alot easier to point a finger, that give a helping hand.
Bearacuda
Second, I, as an American am resentful to all other countries in the world. Even in UN supported operations, the United States is given the responsibility to give the most men, money, and equipment. I resent the world looking to the United States to act as global policeman. I also think part of the blame is shouldered by US foriegn policy. I have yet to see France, Spain, England, China, India, and any other country you could name step forward and offer to lead the charge in a UN supported military action. Technological advancement isn't a factor in this issue. For this issue is purely by principle. So, until any country wishes to undertake the majority of military planning and execution in a UN supported action, I say, you have little room to criticize.
Third, I like the idea of the United Nations. A body of world representives given a place to present and solve local and global problems. But I think what is endemic to the UN is human nature. I think there will be times the emergencies of an individual country will not be properly addressed. So, it is up to that country go it alone. Sure it goes against the UN, but does that make it wrong?
Fourth, I've known for a long time that this war with Iraq was going to happen. The events around the liberation of Kuwait in 1991 and afterward first gave the idea. But the moment the US mobilized its first troops and equipment to the Gulf region, I knew war was inevitable. I knew it was a no lose situation for George W. Bush. If he built up military presence in the Gulf and went to war with Iraq, he'd win. If he built up military presence and had to turn back. He'd still win. For I think he could make his case that a threat so large does exist, it required a huge military presence to force it's hand, therefore, let's increase military budget spending! Which Republicans, conservatives, are well known for.
Lastly, if George W. Bush doesn't like Saddam Hussein, he's in a position to do something about it. I'm sorry you don't understand. If Russia, France, and other oppositional countries really wanted to stop the United States they'd mobilize there military to stand in our way. The US is not foolish enough to start a war with France, Russia, etc. If this all meant that much to them, there is alot more they could do to show it, and they aren't.
It is alot easier to point a finger, that give a helping hand.
Bearacuda
Why the hell America is concerned so much about Iraq, USA is thousands of miles away, there are people that are nearby that should be more concerned about that, and they have the right to act according to the UN rights.
We are not puppets, we have voice, and with the right that democracy gives us we speak. And not, we are not the minority, we are the majority .
Are the people, that decide, that they have to go to war NO! it is the leaders that decide. The people of America might be nice and good, i dont have the right to judge that, but Bush goverment is the one that attacks Iraq (Bush , War factories, and oil companies) , and who will pay all this? Do you think America will do? AGAIN NO. We (the people all around the world , and especially those in Iraq and near Iraq) are going to pay it*. Instead of building schools, places to educate their people (and USA has a lot of problems with poverty, drugs and illegal money)... USA is building weapons to attack every small country that affects it's policy, so we are all vulnerable against USA, we can be the next target.
Think before you say something, because you are not gonna change the world, USA has shown as that the only way to do that is by war.
And do you think that USA does not have weapons of mass destruction? Do they have they right to have them? is there anyone that tell's them not to,? nope because they think that they are over us and they can do whatever they want.
They first brain wash their people and then they are trying to make us believe that USA is our leader, and we have to do whatever USA says, and if we oppose you can see what they can do to you...
AND THIS IS NOT POLITICS, LIVES ARE IN STAKE , and maybe you might be next... who knows.
*I can prove this by giving you an example. In the war against Bosnia, USA asked to pay the least amount of money for humanitarian reasons because they said that they have dropped the most bombs and they used quite a lot of military resourses (they didnt say that exactly like that but the result counts) . But again who's idea was to start the war?
This is just a parentheses
We are not puppets, we have voice, and with the right that democracy gives us we speak. And not, we are not the minority, we are the majority .
Are the people, that decide, that they have to go to war NO! it is the leaders that decide. The people of America might be nice and good, i dont have the right to judge that, but Bush goverment is the one that attacks Iraq (Bush , War factories, and oil companies) , and who will pay all this? Do you think America will do? AGAIN NO. We (the people all around the world , and especially those in Iraq and near Iraq) are going to pay it*. Instead of building schools, places to educate their people (and USA has a lot of problems with poverty, drugs and illegal money)... USA is building weapons to attack every small country that affects it's policy, so we are all vulnerable against USA, we can be the next target.
Think before you say something, because you are not gonna change the world, USA has shown as that the only way to do that is by war.
And do you think that USA does not have weapons of mass destruction? Do they have they right to have them? is there anyone that tell's them not to,? nope because they think that they are over us and they can do whatever they want.
They first brain wash their people and then they are trying to make us believe that USA is our leader, and we have to do whatever USA says, and if we oppose you can see what they can do to you...
AND THIS IS NOT POLITICS, LIVES ARE IN STAKE , and maybe you might be next... who knows.
*I can prove this by giving you an example. In the war against Bosnia, USA asked to pay the least amount of money for humanitarian reasons because they said that they have dropped the most bombs and they used quite a lot of military resourses (they didnt say that exactly like that but the result counts) . But again who's idea was to start the war?
This is just a parentheses
First, I don't mind having the topic of war present on a tech site. It is in the right forum 'Off Topic' after all.
Second, I, as an American am resentful to all other countries in the world. Even in UN supported operations, the United States is given the responsibility to give the most men, money, and equipment. I resent the world looking to the United States to act as global policeman. I also think part of the blame is shouldered by US foriegn policy. I have yet to see France, Spain, England, China, India, and any other country you could name step forward and offer to lead the charge in a UN supported military action. Technological advancement isn't a factor in this issue. For this issue is purely by principle. So, until any country wishes to undertake the majority of military planning and execution in a UN supported action, I say, you have little room to criticize.
Third, I like the idea of the United Nations. A body of world representives given a place to present and solve local and global problems. But I think what is endemic to the UN is human nature. I think there will be times the emergencies of an individual country will not be properly addressed. So, it is up to that country go it alone. Sure it goes against the UN, but does that make it wrong?
Fourth, I've known for a long time that this war with Iraq was going to happen. The events around the liberation of Kuwait in 1991 and afterward first gave the idea. But the moment the US mobilized its first troops and equipment to the Gulf region, I knew war was inevitable. I knew it was a no lose situation for George W. Bush. If he built up military presence in the Gulf and went to war with Iraq, he'd win. If he built up military presence and had to turn back. He'd still win. For I think he could make his case that a threat so large does exist, it required a huge military presence to force it's hand, therefore, let's increase military budget spending! Which Republicans, conservatives, are well known for.
Lastly, if George W. Bush doesn't like Saddam Hussein, he's in a position to do something about it. I'm sorry you don't understand. If Russia, France, and other oppositional countries really wanted to stop the United States they'd mobilize there military to stand in our way. The US is not foolish enough to start a war with France, Russia, etc. If this all meant that much to them, there is alot more they could do to show it, and they aren't.
It is alot easier to point a finger, that give a helping hand.
Bearacuda
Good point.
Wow, politics is not your bag there genius. You do know what a dictatorship is, dont you? If not us, then who? That sentence (first quoted below) is one of the stupidest, oxymorons I have ever seen.
Second, there are other countries, I assume you mean Korea. This is brand new, and diplomacy is still under way. Iraq has been ongoing for many years.
Im suprised you didnt say oil, you come off as a high school or college student. My 12 and 17 year old sons are one of a couple, they think, that disagree with their teacher because they are afraid to speak up against their teacher. I also see a lot of protests which are heavily college students. See the parallel? Funny that protesters become violent to, isnt it?
Read around some, get all the facts from multiple sources and make your own opinion. And tell your teacher he or she is a whiny liberal moron for me
Second, there are other countries, I assume you mean Korea. This is brand new, and diplomacy is still under way. Iraq has been ongoing for many years.
Im suprised you didnt say oil, you come off as a high school or college student. My 12 and 17 year old sons are one of a couple, they think, that disagree with their teacher because they are afraid to speak up against their teacher. I also see a lot of protests which are heavily college students. See the parallel? Funny that protesters become violent to, isnt it?
Read around some, get all the facts from multiple sources and make your own opinion. And tell your teacher he or she is a whiny liberal moron for me
No question that a dictatorship may not be the best political system to have in a country but is that really our's to decide on? And are there not other countries in the far east that should be observed with similar concern?
:evil:
For Gods sake Warp2 stay with running a techy website. The multiplicity of views and opinions will swamp you. I'm becoming absolutely pissed off with all the armchair experts, here and in the news media, telling us how it should be done.
If this fiasco had been the social norm back in 1939 we, in England, would be part of Germany now and Europe, most likely, under Nazi rule. Hitler also had plans to invade the good ole USA. How'd yur like them apples?
Stop pissing about and show some pride in who you are what you are part of. If not, SOD OFF!!!!!!!!!
For Gods sake Warp2 stay with running a techy website. The multiplicity of views and opinions will swamp you. I'm becoming absolutely pissed off with all the armchair experts, here and in the news media, telling us how it should be done.
If this fiasco had been the social norm back in 1939 we, in England, would be part of Germany now and Europe, most likely, under Nazi rule. Hitler also had plans to invade the good ole USA. How'd yur like them apples?
Stop pissing about and show some pride in who you are what you are part of. If not, SOD OFF!!!!!!!!!
Why the hell America is concerned so much about Iraq, USA is thousands of miles away,.
How does distance make Iraq harmless to the US? Al Qaida was located in Afghanistan. The country is equally as far from the US as Iraq is, did that stop them from hitting the twin towers and DC?
and who will pay all this? Do you think America will do? .
5 American marines and 8 British commandos already paid for that. And theres much more America will pay to rebuild the country economically.
Instead of building schools, places to educate their people (and USA has a lot of problems with poverty, drugs and illegal money)... USA is building weapons to attack every small country that affects it's policy, .
LOL where are you from? Your country spends all their money on building school and stuff and not worrying about their military? You know how immature that sounds? Wherever you are from, your country will do anything to defend itself too.
And do you think that USA does not have weapons of mass destruction? Do they have they right to have them? is there anyone that tell's them not to,? .
Our military does have weapons of mass destruction, and there are international laws that make it legal for us to have them. There are people that tell us not to. Thats why we reduced our nuclear warheads with the Soviets.
In my opinion, if you play nice to the stronger ones, you wouldnt end up getting your butt whooped like Saddam Hussein. Otherwise, you are safer than ever
sorry guys no offense but I think a mod should close this topic now because it will get really out of hand and possibly create problems as it has happened on my board at tech-critic.
Oh my god, I can't believe this. I had a simply HUGE response to Coelho's rubbish, and got an "invalid session" error when I submitted. Sigh, let me go back and rewrite it...
If the topic is closed when I'm finished, then I will be pissed
This is bound not to be half as good, because my heart isn't half in it now like it was, but here goes.
All peaceful efforts? The United States has tried for twelve years with the United Nations to disarm Iraq. The United Nations has proven that peaceful means are not possible.
I think that those who have lived in a dictatorship are the only ones able to truly decide and comment on how bad it is. It is not the United States decision, but the Iraqi people's decision as to what kind of government they will have after liberation.
Right...you know, I don't think Mr. Bush was around when a Russian veto prevented the United Nations from taking action in Kosovo. What was the result? I think they call it GENOCIDE. Thousands of ethnic Albanians were slaughtered, and the United States had to go in to stop it. How about when the United Nations wouldn't take action in Somalia? What was the result? Mass murder? The death of numerous United States troops? How about Rwanda. The United Nations were prohibited from protecting the people that were being SLAUGHTERED around them. Do we really have to get into the situation in Grenada?
How long? It took the United Nations twelve years to destroy missles that Iraq "didn't have." Iraq still refuses to confess to having weapons that they had in 1998, and they have provided no proof of getting rid of those weapons. Hans Blix has a list of about 15 or 20 things left that Iraq needed to declare...do we need to take 12 years for each of those items?
As are mine. My thoughts are also with these people: (Not for the weak stomached)
http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
Paulo Coelho is a hippie. Of course he's going to oppose the war. He opposes it solely because of emotion, not because of facts. I prefer to listen to another acclaimed author, Elie Wiesel, who is a survivor of Auschwitz, and wrote the novel "Night." He also funds the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity. He is a huge advocator of PEACE in the world, but he also supports George Bush and the United States because of FACTS.
From reading the rest of this, this is the closest that he gets to being correct. It's all downhill from here.
Oops, no, he's still correct.
Sorry Paulo, you're incorrect with this statement. The United States withdrew their offer to Turkey, and Turkey's parliament has voted to let the US use their air space, and to station small numbers of troops for a northern front on Iraq.
You're a humorous man, Mr. Coelho. You need a reality check if you think over 90% of Britain, Spain, or even the two combined, are against war. In the latest British polls, only about 65% are against the war (this is a number that WAS over 85% a few weeks ago). In another British poll, 51% (FIFTY-ONE PERCENT) expressed COMPLETE CONFIDENCE in George W Bush.
Sorry, Paulo, maybe you need to listen to all of what Mr. Blair said.
Interestingly enough, you do not address any of the other information that Colin Powell exhibited., nor do you address the fact that Iraq is in violation of UN Resolution 678 through 1441, and that Hans Blix recognizes this, and that he is very critical of the Iraqi government.
I'm sorry, but you're infinitely incorrect here. A short list of some people that have received standing ovations from the United Nations:
Bill Clinton
Kofi Annan
Jean Chretien
Ralph Bunche
Fidel Castro
U Thant
Tony benn
Sorry, that's just a short list, I don't have the time to list all of them.
This is interesting as well. Are you talking about Oman, the UAE, Qatar, Turkey, and Kuwait? All of these countries support the United States, Mr. Coelho. Their populations, with the exception of Turkey, also support the United States. You must be talking about Saudi Arabia...sorry Mr. Coelho, but it's 5 vs 1 here.
Really, I'm sure you must be talking about countries like Pakistan, a country that is STILL on the fence and has not gone one way or the other, or perhaps you're talking about a country like Cameroon, a former French colony, that was on the border of supporting France, but now supports the United States.
Really...shouldn't he care what the British people think? Granted the majority of the British people are against war, I've already pointed out that their opinion is quickly changing.
Divide Europe? How is the United States dividing Europe? Jacques Chirac is the one that expressed is disdain for Eastern European countries who support the United States saying that they missed "the oppurtunity to keep their mouths shut." I'm sorry sir, but if you want somebody to blame for the division of Europe, you need to look into the heart of Europe itself.
Excuse me? I don't want to say that a world renowned author is wrong...but you're wrong. World opinion is not hardly as skewed towards anti-war sentiment as you make it seem. You forget that the United States has support from EVERY CONTINENT (except Antarctica, of course) The coalition that supports this war is second in quantity only to the coalition that was against the Germans in World War II. The United States has public support in mid-Africa, northern South America, central Central America, North America, eastern Europe, and southeastern Asia.
You really should source your quotes, Mr. Coelho. Being an author, you should know this. A quick internet search produced no results aside from your letter here on numerous leftist and anti-American websites. Maybe it's the translation, I don't know.
I'm still wondering who exactly "us" is...do you live with a couple of cockroaches? Because you didn't mention them in your leftist, anti-American, anti-Bush propaganda.
I ask you, who exactly should we listen to, Mr. Coelho? France? Russia? China? Turkey (before they let us in)? Germany?
Please, remind me of what good these countries have done in the past. Russia used extreme unilateral force in Chechnya (force that was publicly condemned by the United States). Is that why we should listen to them?
Of course, China has NEVER had a bad human rights record, right? Is this why we should listen to them?
Turkey? The country that committed genocide against millions of Armenians in the early 20th century. The country that has threatened to use force (unilateral force) against the virtually defenseless Kurds if they try to take Kirkuk back (a Kurdish city).
France? Why, because they want to keep their multi-billion dollar oil deals with Saddam and Jacques Chirac doesn't want his close personal friend to be removed from power?
Should we stop because of protestors? You know, those people that could be spending their time volunteering at a hospital or something to help people instead of taking up the precious time of our police forces when they could be out stopping significant crime somewhere.
In closing, God bless the troops fighting for our freedoms, and even bless all those protesters, as hypocritical as they may be.
If the topic is closed when I'm finished, then I will be pissed
This is bound not to be half as good, because my heart isn't half in it now like it was, but here goes.
In our opinion it is a tragedy that it has come so far and that all peaceful efforts were thrown aside as the U.S. have begun their attacks.
All peaceful efforts? The United States has tried for twelve years with the United Nations to disarm Iraq. The United Nations has proven that peaceful means are not possible.
No question that a dictatorship may not be the best political system to have in a country but is that really our's to decide on?
I think that those who have lived in a dictatorship are the only ones able to truly decide and comment on how bad it is. It is not the United States decision, but the Iraqi people's decision as to what kind of government they will have after liberation.
The United Nations Security Council has been rendered ineffective by the decision George W. Bush has made.
Right...you know, I don't think Mr. Bush was around when a Russian veto prevented the United Nations from taking action in Kosovo. What was the result? I think they call it GENOCIDE. Thousands of ethnic Albanians were slaughtered, and the United States had to go in to stop it. How about when the United Nations wouldn't take action in Somalia? What was the result? Mass murder? The death of numerous United States troops? How about Rwanda. The United Nations were prohibited from protecting the people that were being SLAUGHTERED around them. Do we really have to get into the situation in Grenada?
We admit though that politics would have taken a much longer time frame.
How long? It took the United Nations twelve years to destroy missles that Iraq "didn't have." Iraq still refuses to confess to having weapons that they had in 1998, and they have provided no proof of getting rid of those weapons. Hans Blix has a list of about 15 or 20 things left that Iraq needed to declare...do we need to take 12 years for each of those items?
Our thoughts are with the victims of this war - Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the frontiers.
As are mine. My thoughts are also with these people: (Not for the weak stomached)
http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
Worldwide acclaimed brazilian author Paul Coelho, author of “The Alchemistâ€, amongst other works, and member of the Brazilian Academy of Arts & Letters, wrote the following critical open letter to the President of the United States...
Paulo Coelho is a hippie. Of course he's going to oppose the war. He opposes it solely because of emotion, not because of facts. I prefer to listen to another acclaimed author, Elie Wiesel, who is a survivor of Auschwitz, and wrote the novel "Night." He also funds the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity. He is a huge advocator of PEACE in the world, but he also supports George Bush and the United States because of FACTS.
Thank you, George Bush, the Great Leader.
From reading the rest of this, this is the closest that he gets to being correct. It's all downhill from here.
First of all, may I thank you for showing all of us the danger which Saddam Hussein represents. Perhaps many of us might have forgotten that he used chemical weapons against his own people as well as against the people of Iran. Hussein is a blood-thirsty dictator, and certainly an embodiment of evil in the world today.
Oops, no, he's still correct.
Thank you for showing us all that the people of Turkey and their Parliament are not for sale, not even for $26 billion dollars.
Sorry Paulo, you're incorrect with this statement. The United States withdrew their offer to Turkey, and Turkey's parliament has voted to let the US use their air space, and to station small numbers of troops for a northern front on Iraq.
Thank you for showing us clearly the enormous abyss which exists between the decisions taken by leaders of nations and the true desires of their people. Thank you for helping us see with painful clarity that whether it is José Aznar of Spain or Tony Blair of the UK, that our so called elected leaders don´t have the slightest regard or respect for the fact that over 90% of their population are against war. Thank you for allowing us to witness the ease with whichTony Blair was able to blithely ignore the largest public protest held in England in the last 30 years.
You're a humorous man, Mr. Coelho. You need a reality check if you think over 90% of Britain, Spain, or even the two combined, are against war. In the latest British polls, only about 65% are against the war (this is a number that WAS over 85% a few weeks ago). In another British poll, 51% (FIFTY-ONE PERCENT) expressed COMPLETE CONFIDENCE in George W Bush.
Thank you, because your insistence on war forced Blair to go to Parliament with a plagiarized dossier which consisted of notes written ten years ago by an arab graduate student. As a result we were able to witness the unbelievable farce of Blair insisting that these notes represented “proof†gathered by the British secret service.
Sorry, Paulo, maybe you need to listen to all of what Mr. Blair said.
Thank you for for making Colin Powell descend to the ridiculous by showing the UN Security Council photographs, which a week later were publicly denounced by Hans Blix, the weapons inspector responsible for verifying the disarmament of Iraq
Interestingly enough, you do not address any of the other information that Colin Powell exhibited., nor do you address the fact that Iraq is in violation of UN Resolution 678 through 1441, and that Hans Blix recognizes this, and that he is very critical of the Iraqi government.
Thank you, because your position on war resulted in the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Dominique de Villepin, in his speech against war on Iraq, being honored by a standing ovation. This is an honor which, if I am correct, has only happened once before in the history of the U.N., and that was during a presentation by Nelson Mandela.
I'm sorry, but you're infinitely incorrect here. A short list of some people that have received standing ovations from the United Nations:
Bill Clinton
Kofi Annan
Jean Chretien
Ralph Bunche
Fidel Castro
U Thant
Tony benn
Sorry, that's just a short list, I don't have the time to list all of them.
Thank you, because due to your strenuous push for war, for the first time the Arab nations of the Gulf, usually so divided, have found a reason to unite and have recently issued a joint resolution in Cairo condemning your proposed invasion. You have brought about a unity of opinion amongst the arab nations, that they had not achieved on their own.
This is interesting as well. Are you talking about Oman, the UAE, Qatar, Turkey, and Kuwait? All of these countries support the United States, Mr. Coelho. Their populations, with the exception of Turkey, also support the United States. You must be talking about Saudi Arabia...sorry Mr. Coelho, but it's 5 vs 1 here.
Thank you, because as a result of your administration´s rhetoric blasting the United Nations as “irrelevantâ€, even the most undecided and reluctant nations have been inspired to take a position against your country´s attack on Iraq.
Really, I'm sure you must be talking about countries like Pakistan, a country that is STILL on the fence and has not gone one way or the other, or perhaps you're talking about a country like Cameroon, a former French colony, that was on the border of supporting France, but now supports the United States.
Thank you for your extraordinary foreign policy. Attempts to defend your ambitions have caused British Foreign Minister Jack Straw, to attempt to argue a case for a “moral warâ€, and with each attempt lose more international credibility.
Really...shouldn't he care what the British people think? Granted the majority of the British people are against war, I've already pointed out that their opinion is quickly changing.
Thank you for attempting to divide Europe, which after a century of war and upheaval has been fighting for unity. This was a warning clearly seen by all of us, and it will not be forgotten.
Divide Europe? How is the United States dividing Europe? Jacques Chirac is the one that expressed is disdain for Eastern European countries who support the United States saying that they missed "the oppurtunity to keep their mouths shut." I'm sorry sir, but if you want somebody to blame for the division of Europe, you need to look into the heart of Europe itself.
Thank you for finally managing to achieve what few have managed in the past century: to unite millions of people, across the continents and give them a common cause to fight for, even if that cause is the exact opposite from yours.
Excuse me? I don't want to say that a world renowned author is wrong...but you're wrong. World opinion is not hardly as skewed towards anti-war sentiment as you make it seem. You forget that the United States has support from EVERY CONTINENT (except Antarctica, of course) The coalition that supports this war is second in quantity only to the coalition that was against the Germans in World War II. The United States has public support in mid-Africa, northern South America, central Central America, North America, eastern Europe, and southeastern Asia.
“May your morning be glorious and May the sun shine brightly on the armor of your soldiers, because in the afternoon I will defeat you.â€
You really should source your quotes, Mr. Coelho. Being an author, you should know this. A quick internet search produced no results aside from your letter here on numerous leftist and anti-American websites. Maybe it's the translation, I don't know.
Thank you, because I know you will not listen to us, nor take us seriously. Know, however, that we have listened to you and heard you clearly, and we will not soon forget your words.
I'm still wondering who exactly "us" is...do you live with a couple of cockroaches? Because you didn't mention them in your leftist, anti-American, anti-Bush propaganda.
I ask you, who exactly should we listen to, Mr. Coelho? France? Russia? China? Turkey (before they let us in)? Germany?
Please, remind me of what good these countries have done in the past. Russia used extreme unilateral force in Chechnya (force that was publicly condemned by the United States). Is that why we should listen to them?
Of course, China has NEVER had a bad human rights record, right? Is this why we should listen to them?
Turkey? The country that committed genocide against millions of Armenians in the early 20th century. The country that has threatened to use force (unilateral force) against the virtually defenseless Kurds if they try to take Kirkuk back (a Kurdish city).
France? Why, because they want to keep their multi-billion dollar oil deals with Saddam and Jacques Chirac doesn't want his close personal friend to be removed from power?
Should we stop because of protestors? You know, those people that could be spending their time volunteering at a hospital or something to help people instead of taking up the precious time of our police forces when they could be out stopping significant crime somewhere.
In closing, God bless the troops fighting for our freedoms, and even bless all those protesters, as hypocritical as they may be.
People i regret the casualities of the loss of US and UK Marines and hopely no one will follow, it's the will of GOD and how the war wil ends too
i hope it will stay with this casualities, and i'm praying for the all the alied soldiers,and Iraki civillians wich will be freed.
God Bless the US and UK........ :(
i hope it will stay with this casualities, and i'm praying for the all the alied soldiers,and Iraki civillians wich will be freed.
God Bless the US and UK........ :(
