MP4 - new standard in quality & size - tutorial & fi

Hello, NIN9 and me recently discussed about audio-codecs. . . he had some. ogg's - I do only have. mp3's and huh whats about. mp4's Informations / Impressions OK: one note for those who think MP4 great that must be.

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Hello,

NIN9 and me recently discussed about audio-codecs ...
he had some .ogg's - I do only have .mp3's and huh whats about .mp4's

Informations / Impressions
OK: one note for those who think MP4 great that must be ... NO!
1. mp3 is NOT MPEG 3 its MPEG 1 Layer 3 but thats very well known huh ?
2. so whats MP4 now ??? MPEG 1 layer 4 ? NO MP4 is just a "container" for the AAC Audio codec so the thing we are talking about is AAC OGG and MP3

I was reading some forum telling that AAC deserves the same quality at 96kb as mp3 at 128 sounds interesting huh ? OK that needs some testing

1. the base is an normal Audio CD
2. the original is a 16bit 44.100Hz PCM .wave file (accurate ripped) 26.4MB
3. now lets code ... sorted by size
- mp4@64kb 1.18MB --> clear difference to the original but not as bad as the 96kb mp3
- mp4@96kB 1.78 MB --> just as the original no hearable differenceto provide ultimate quality/size ratio
- mp3@96kB 1.79MB --> clear difference to the original not worth to keep
- ogg@128kb 2,33MB --> no difference to the original
- mp4@128kb 2,37MB --> no difference to original or 96kb MP4 or OGG@128, but to provide ultimate quality/size ratio
- mp3@128kb 2,39MB --> very close to original but less highs very little but noticable difference

That gives me the followin conclusions:
- .mp3 is out of date
- .ogg is a very nice and free MP3 replacement
- .aac/mp4 sets the new standard in quality and size for compressed music
- mp4@128kB deserves ultimate quality @ reasonable file size

and best of all MP4 can seamlessly replace MP3 since there is already full support by plugins for it ....
OK .... after lots of more testing and so on heres the result:

MP4 encoding Tutorial and Tools
1. get http://www.dbpoweramp.com to encode nearly ANY format to MP4
2. get our little package H E R E it's based on NERO's AAC engine with ENcoder CLI
Beta Phase ended should work like charm now!
2.1 install to get an easy to use GUI for batch encoding and maximum stability/quality
2.2 I recommend CBR @96kb (LC AAC)
- NIN9 would CRB @ 128kB (LC AAC)
- I do NOT recommend using VBR since the NERO encoder is not the best in choosing the right bitrate at time
3. now convert all the music you want to
4. get this great and free tool http://www.mp3tag.de to Tag your MP4 files for maximum pleasure
5. goto here and get the MP4 plugin for www.winamp.com
6. start winamp
7. goto preference choose MP4 plugin and set titel format to "%1 - %2" if you have set Tags
- in filetypes you can select MP4 or more types to associate with Winamp without doing that manually in windows

Additional Tools
x. for those with fullCDinOneMPx file ... mp3cue still works!!!
x. if you search for a supreme renaming tool go http://www.1-4a.com/rename/
EDIT: 02.01.2003
x. there is a way to split AAC files by time with WBIAS feat. BeSplit
or by a cue with CUE_Splitter feat. BeSplit
but remember BeSplit actually only supports AAC you have to transform your MP4 to AAC (without any quality loss). There is a dMC plugin to do this but just as the MP4 Plugin it does not work correctly ... I will investigate this and report back

report additions and any comment here !

happy coding ...
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Responses to this topic


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Hey thanks for updating us on such bro.
I for one totally forgot about the mp4 format. It like completely
faded away in my mind. It sounds good to me, i'm not sound format
expert, but hey, better quality for the size, WHY NOT


Yngwie II

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Downloaded and installed all the tools you recommened, then converted all my mp3's into mp4's. It definately makes a difference in quality, especially at the high end of the spectrum. If you have a bunch of mp3's to convert, go do something else while it is converting as it takes a little while. But worth it.

Derf
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Of course you all ready now that encoding to a lossy format (which all of these mentioned are) will always loose quality, never gain, even though it might not be noticably to the senses. So reencoding your mp3's to mp4 will not give you better quality.
Encoding your uncompressed CD's to mp4 will probably give you better quality than encoding them to mp3 though.

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sure ... never daid anything else ... but if you can get same quality or at least same-0,1% on 0,75 oder 0,5 time the size isn't it worth doing it ... and when you go rip a CD go MP4 from beginning ....with full quality

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Ogg is ultimate sound sormat for all. It's free and perfect. 64Kbit OGG is better than 96Kbit ACC. Try and listen your self. Also there is 255 channel support in Ogg file format...
www.vorbis.com
8)

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hmmm I may accept the 96kb AAC is too low for real music pleasure ... but 128 is more the enough and one thing is for sure ... 64kB is not acceptable for real music listening equal which codec ....
For voice recording it has awesome quality ... but not for music

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Ogg is ultimate sound sormat for all. It's free and perfect. 64Kbit OGG is better than 96Kbit ACC. Try and listen your self. Also there is 255 channel support in Ogg file format...
www.vorbis.com
8)


dude buy a new soundcard or go to the doctor with ya ears !
Ogg 64kbit has more sound cracklings than MP4 64kbit,
but the sound is more transparent/clear @Ogg when coding high frequenscy stuff. MP4 noise filter makes the sound to dark /much bass.

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Mertsch and Nin9 what are your opinions for using Easy cd-da extractor 6 for encode and decode mp4 ?

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I never used this software ... nor will I ever install it ... I just hate it don't ask me why I just do
so I did not even know that this thingy got MP4-encoder ...
and I never heard about that .... in any of the forums i searched before this threat
I want comfortable batch coding and no bloated software
and last ... dMC has always been my favorite encoding util

EDIT: but don't u just make a little comparison ? take a CD and rip a bit with easy Cd...... and dmc ... notice any difference ?

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actually after i read your post i converted 355 mp3 to mp4 using easy cd-da extractor and it took me 3 hours...also i did the same thing using dBpoweramp and i didnt find any acoustic differences...
But because im not an expert with decoders and encoders i asked for your opinion...

Happy new year guys (only 5 days away) :)

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yeah one thing nearly forgot ... dmc + all those stuff is free ... I know many ppl. give shit about that but huh if theres a free solution why not

maybe there is no single difference between those solutions at least out is some very 133t work from some chobo who need hours to do some simple operations but a least it was funny chatting now that we know that it was all for nothing LMAO

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What do you all have 5 GB hard drives? Why are you bothering with such low bitrates? Just rip it to 100% VBR MP3 and be done with such nonsense.

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What do you all have 5 GB hard drives? Why are you bothering with such low bitrates? Just rip it to 100% VBR MP3 and be done with such nonsense.


because for the thrill of it ... because of the adventure ... because it is new (at least to me) ... because it is an improvement ... because 1337 chobocoding make fun ...

why do ppl. make fangrills on their fans ? why do ppl. upgrad their CPU for gaining 5% extrapower ? why to buy a bigger HDD when 50% more music fits on same space ? why buy 1Gig RAM when 512 is enough in nearly any personal PC usage case ? why do you visit this threat if you are not interested in it ? answere me at least the last question !

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i havent 5GB, but 10GB so I care ! OK!NP :finger:

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because for the thrill of it ... because of the adventure ... because it is new (at least to me) ... because it is an improvement ... because 1337 chobocoding make fun ...

why do ppl. make fangrills on their fans ? why do ppl. upgrad their CPU for gaining 5% extrapower ? why to buy a bigger HDD when 50% more music fits on same space ? why buy 1Gig RAM when 512 is enough in nearly any personal PC usage case ? why do you visit this threat if you are not interested in it ? answere me at least the last question !


I hardly see the thrill in using low bitrate media.

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maybe YOU dont care, but many radio stations/streams.

my final statement to this topic:
Use Ogg, for high quality coding @192/44Hz or Quality mode Q6
oggdropXPd V.1.7.6 using LibVorbis v1.0.1

there is also an alternative quality optimized version of Ogg encoder
oggdropXPd V.1.7.6 using GT3b1 based on LibVorbis v1.0

GT3B2 will come soon, it was already out but there were some problems so they put the binarys down :knife:

THESE FILES ARE FOR NOOB AND EXPERIENCED USERS !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for lower frequencys (128/96kbps) and portable devices I would take MP4 ( low filesize and avarage quality)

for home pc use MP3@160-192 AVB using LAME encoder if u dont like Ogg

LAME 3.93.1 Official

LAME 3.94 beta 1

LAME 3.95 alpha 1

THESE FILES ARE FOR EXPERIENCED USERS
*if u dont how to use them, just copy the "lame_enc.dll" to ya "dBpowerAMPCompressionLame" folder. But this not a good way to quality encoding but the fastest for noobs
check the zips for mor command line switches



now see ya, need some fresh air after this story

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even more possibilities are outa there .... you can easily attach video content to the MP4 container .... and think further an MP3 mustn always be music ... thnink about movies ... 6channel movies ... when you could save 25-50% in size the multiply it by 6 it can be easily 150 MB you save just by doing another compression methode

and lotsa argument more .... and even if you say low bit rates suck its for sure that AAC deserves better qual @ 128 then MP3 @128 oder 192 oder 300 or whatever you want ...
radiostations are also quite good example see a 96kB MP4 radistation can provide awesome experience for MODEM/ISDN users who do NOT have enough bandwidth to listn to 128 or even 192kB

also take ppl. who make music for professional use and "trade" it with others via internet be sure they would be thankfull if new codec could save them some time

and so on .... if YOU don't like it then keep whatever you want ...

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Use Ogg, for high quality coding @192/48Hz or Quality mode Q6

But it doesn't make sense to change the sample rate from 44 KHz to 48. Always use the sample rate of the original material. Upsampling is a complex filtering process which will never give you any quality gain.

And beware of new formats like AAC. People always talk the "lower bitrate - same quality" stuff, but in fact this doesn't hold to be true in most cases when it comes to professional tests. Just one listening test cannot proof such a thing. Maybe it's the filtering used by the encoder which makes the music seem to sound better, but actually there could be more difference to the original. MP3 itself underwent a long way of improvment regarding the encoding quality during the years. Many commercial programs used crappy encoders and the geeks used unhandy command line tools to achieve maximum quality, whereas the "normal" users always sticked to their preinstalled crap and said it was all right. They always say it's all right but it isn't. And I believe AAC isn't either, at least not yet.

If you want to stay compatible use MP3 encoded by LAME, otherwise switch to OGG Vorbis or Musepack (MPC) if you simply want to use the best available formats. If size doesn't matter use lossless formats like FLAC or Monkey's Audio.

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using lossless formats requires me to rip all the stuff from cd again.
most stuff i have is undergrund shit, and cannot be purchased.

yah i corrected this post now :)

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MP3 is outdated, thats right, but you dont have to rip at 128kbps. i always rip at 192 or 320, depending on what gets ripped.
OGG is nice, but still got very little support in portable players for instance. they usually only play mp3 or wma.
so ogg is out of the question untill decent support of the format is incorporated throughout the music business.
one drawback on the newer formats like WMA9 and OGG is when in portable players the decoding is requirering more batterypower because of the more advanced encodings. so i still go with mp3s in my Futurelabs NeX2e - which btw accepts compactflash cards, so size isnt really an issue either :)